Religious Right, right?

[moxdevil]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,3605,1651335,00.html

Thought this article was interesting about the American general mindset from an outside viewpoint.

 

[moxdevil]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1677556,00.html

Pat's busy.

"The Israeli government is planning to give up a large slice of land to American Christian evangelicals to build a biblical theme park by the Sea of Galilee where Jesus is said to have walked on water and fed 5,000 with five loaves and two fish.
A consortium of Christian groups, led by the television evangelist Pat Robertson, is in negotiation with the Israeli ministry of tourism and a deal is expected in the coming months. The project is expected to bring up to 1 million extra tourists a year but an undeclared benefit will be the cementing of a political alliance between the Israeli rightwing and the American Christian right."

:lol:

 

[mindido]

Mox,

I think this guy said it about right,

"As a Jew, they believe I have to vanish before Jesus can make his second appearance. As I have no plans to convert, as an Israeli and a Jew, I find this a provocation. There is something sinister about their embrace."

Televangelists and theme parks??? I'll bet this one ends up about the same as the last.

 

[mindido]

Just when you think Pat Roberson can't outdo himself, he comes up with another zinger. He's suggesting that Ariel Sharon's stroke is an act of god because Sharon tried to make peace with the Palestinians:

"God considers this land to be his," Robertson said on his TV program "The 700 Club." "You read the Bible and he says `This is my land,' and for any prime minister of Israel who decides he is going to carve it up and give it away, God says, `No, this is mine.'"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060105...igBRwOs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

Maybe it is time someone put this clown out of his misery.

 

[Preferred User]

Pat Roberson:

"...carve it up and give it away..."

Isn't that kinda what the winners of WW II did in 1948 when we created Israel?

 

[mindido]

Preferred,

"Isn't that kinda what the winners of WW II did in 1948 when we created Israel?"

Even though Robertson was certainly around at the time, and should remember the situation, I'm pretty sure thats one fact he'd prefer to forget.

 

[Iceberg]

Robertson prefers to forget a lot, eh?

 

[endymion]

If Ariel Sharon dies, wwho takes his place? Do they fight on his new side, the side of equality and tolerance, or do they follow his old ideals and continue the stupid fighting happening in Israel?
I've said it before, I'll say it again. Religion is the root of all evil, not money. And it's not religious people. It's the people who adapt their religious histories to serve their own purpose. TRULY religious people I think are fine. It's the guys who run the religions who fuck shit up, when they start to abuse the Bible/Koran etc for their own purposes. Eye for an eye Vs. Thou shalt not Kill? Who wins there?
And bring on Jon Stewart for the Oscars. About time.

 

[mindido]

endymion,

I can't disagree with any of that. Right on!

 

[cableguy]

endy, who is attacking who in israel??

for one side, its about wiping out the other side completely, for the other side, its about survival... only one side wants peace, and what we need for peace to exist there is a winner-take-all war between israel and whoever supports palestine... only with one side victorious, and the other defeated, can there be peace...

 

[endymion]

Okay Cable, I didn't know if that first question was rhetorical or not, but if not, here's my take on the situation as I understand it (please someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

The fight is basically between the State of Israel and the Palestinians. Palestine was an area declared by the British in 1916 which is basically comprised nowadays of Jordan, "West Bank" and Israel.
Then in 1923, the British shoved all the Jewish people in Palestine to the West side of the Jordan river, thereby cutting off about 75% of Palestine from them. However the non-Jewish, "the Palestian Arabs", people still on the West side of the Jordan weren't too thrilled about this, and decided to force the Jews out altogether.
In May, 1948, the State of Israel was created, the new homeland for the Palestian Jews who had been forced over to the West Bank. The next day they were attacked by Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Yemen. 19 months later, the war was over, Israel had driven the invaders out, but lost 1% of their entire population. They also lost a small part of their land, as Jordan was expanded over the river, onto what is now known as "West Bank", basically right next to Israel, but with each State filled with people of very different viewpoints.
Now Israel is occasionally attacked by someone (often suicide bombers) from West Bank, Syria and a whole bunch other countries, and retaliates, or vice-versa. So you have an on-going conflict based entirely on religious belief, that the British kind of started and then ran away from.
This can only end, Cable, if the Arab Palestinians completely over-run Israel, and wipe out all the Jews in the Jewish homeland of Israel. And as one George Walker Bush has said - "Israel's got a right to defend herself; Israel must not feel constrained in terms of defending the homeland."
So it's not a battle that can be one by one side crushing the other, instead it must be a peace found between the warring factions. And that's very, VERY hard.

So endeth the history lesson, apologies for any errors I made in this.

 

[Preferred User]

But Endy, that's not simple enough. Things need to be black and white in the States these days. We need one side as peace loving, the other as warriors. We need good and evil; dead or alive. It needs to be like a winner take all cage match. That feels comfortable so it's gotta be the truth...

 

[Texan]

Need more of this in schools

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=2CEAD2A7-2AC8-4056-8551-E048F9EECDBC

 

[moxdevil]

Need more of this in schools

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=2CEAD2A7-2AC8-4056-8551-E048F9EECDBC

It's very ambiguous in what it entails. If it were like 'Shakespeare and his influence' I wouldn't have a problem; as a piece of fiction the bible has influenced much in literature, this is indisputable. Or it could also give a historical significance of the bible in how it has shaped societies from the pokey little place called Palestine inhabited by Canaanites and others, to how it was adopted by the Roman emperor's in the 4th century and became focal to peoples and nations afterwards. It could also tell how it has influenced people like the Israelites in the bible to commit mass genocide on other peoples (providing that it is recounting real historical events, though this is highly questionable considering the lack of historical value in the bible), or genuinely historical it could recount how it influenced such groups as the inquisition, or how it influenced the crusades, or the foundation of Islam and the jihad, or the state persecutions from the 4th century onwards of Jews and others, of women, of the handicapped, of homosexuals, etc...

Yeah i'd be in favour of that. In English class it can be taught alongside other influential works of fantasy such as Beowulf, or Hamlet. Alternatively it could be studied along with other works of propaganda and their influence in History class.

 

[endymion]

Gotta go with mox here, I think if it's taught as fact, you've got a serious problem. If it is taught as a book of historical signifigance, that's fine. I studied lots of the Bible when I was younger because I always think an informed decision is the ONLY decision you should make. Turns out religion isn't for me, but at least I now have the knowledge on the subject.
So now, sure, bring in the Bible as a textbook. And the Koran. And every other religion's own history books. If you're going to do it in schools, it ought to be fair.

 

[mindido]

Need more of this in schools

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=2CEAD2A7-2AC8-4056-8551-E048F9EECDBC

It will be interesting to see what happens with this. Although I still don't understand why christians incessantly see the need to put their philosophy in the public agenda (other than as a power grab, of course). I guess they aren't doing a good enough job in their own churches. Do have to agree with Endymion on this point,

"So now, sure, bring in the Bible as a textbook. And the Koran. And every other religion's own history books. If you're going to do it in schools, it ought to be fair."

But if they're ONLY teaching the bible, then they may be in some trouble.

 

[mindido]

It looks like we may know what will happen with Tex's class. A small school district in California has had to scrap its ID class which was being taught as part of the philosophy curriculum.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060118...QNvieAA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

A few quotes:

"In the federal court settlement, the district agreed to halt the course at Frazier Mountain High next week and said it would never again offer a "course that promotes or endorses creationism, creation science or intelligent design."

"This sends a strong signal to school districts across the country that they cannot promote creationism or intelligent design as an alternative to evolution, whether they do so in a science class or a humanities class," said Ayesha N. Khan, legal director for Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which represented the parents."

 

[moxdevil]

It looks like we may know what will happen with Tex's class. A small school district in California has had to scrap its ID class which was being taught as part of the philosophy curriculum.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060118...QNvieAA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

A few quotes:

"In the federal court settlement, the district agreed to halt the course at Frazier Mountain High next week and said it would never again offer a "course that promotes or endorses creationism, creation science or intelligent design."

"This sends a strong signal to school districts across the country that they cannot promote creationism or intelligent design as an alternative to evolution, whether they do so in a science class or a humanities class," said Ayesha N. Khan, legal director for Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which represented the parents."

"The El Tejon class "was misconceived," said John West, a senior fellow at the institute. "It was almost all about Biblical creationism, not intelligent design."

Really? You don't say!

"Sharon Lemburg, a social studies teacher and soccer coach who taught "Philosophy of Design," defended the course in a letter to the weekly Mountain Enterprise. "I believe this is the class that the Lord wanted me to teach," she wrote."

I believe, i believe. Everyday i hear a newborn baby cry, or touch a leaf or see the sky... sorry i went off on a tangent there. Philosophy of Design? Hahahaha :mrgreen:

mms://sm1.cbn.org/archive/club/011806.wmv

About 4mins in you get Pat's take on it. Same old same old i'm afraid. :crazy:

 

[moxdevil]

Some more info.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/13568701.htm

"The class taught by a minister's wife shocked some school board members when they learned that three experts on intelligent design were scheduled to speak while two evolution experts listed as guest speakers were not coming.
One of the evolution experts disagreed with the class. The other, Nobel laureate Francis Crick, who was a co-discoverer of the double-helix structure of DNA, died in 2004."

you never know Crick might be brought back from the dead for the class.

 

[mindido]

Mox,

Darwinism a religion? Man..... That clown Robertson doesn't have a clue. Not a clue.