Religious Right, right?

[mindido]

Mox,

Ya gotta admit though, that he does provide some real comic relief. But it does amaze me that there are people that actually take the clown seriously. Oh well, what can you do! There are varying levels of intelligence in the world.

 

[moxdevil]

Mox,

Ya gotta admit though, that he does provide some real comic relief. But it does amaze me that there are people that actually take the clown seriously. Oh well, what can you do! There are varying levels of intelligence in the world.

He's been talking to Jeezus, so how can he be wrong! He pops up every so often on the cable Christian channels that we can receive, what an enlightened fellow!

Just recently there's been some coverage of the Evolution/IDiot controversy in the British media. Sky News ran a short story on the Kansas decision, interviewing one of the spokesmen of the Discovery Institute, also a spokesperson for the National Science Teachers Association. Still, from the nature of the programme it was the thinking that 'ah well its typical hillybilly America again', not realising that the same thing is trying to find an opening elsewhere- Australia where IDiots are attempting the same thing, though thankfully not very successfully; also in Britain- especially now that our beloved government is running with the idea of more faith schools, and opening up the opportunity for churches and individuals to privately sponsor schools- not surprisingly the religious leaders are happy about this. We already have the example of Reg Vardy's college in Gateshead, he being a creationist has made sure that the head of science is a creationist. :sad:

 

[mindido]

Mox,

Kind of makes me wonder. Is it really any wonder that tensions continue to increase between Muslims and Christians? Seems like the radicals of both religions are doing their best to take over the farm. Their certainly trying their best here in the US, and with a sympathetic President such as ours, who knows???

Luckily, his approval rating at the moment is in the toilet. And hopefully that will last.

 

[mindido]

I wonder what Pat Robertson is going to say now. A federal judge absolutely excoriated the school board in Dover, Pa that tried to get ID into the science classroom:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051220...AV7OyAi;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

A few quotes that I really liked:

"A six-week trial over the issue yielded "overwhelming evidence" establishing that intelligent design "is a religious view, a mere re-labeling of creationism, and not a scientific theory," said Jones, a Republican and a churchgoer appointed to the federal bench three years ago."

In his ruling, Jones said that while intelligent design, or ID, arguments "may be true, a proposition on which the court takes no position, ID is not science." Among other things, he said intelligent design "violates the centuries-old ground rules of science by invoking and permitting supernatural causation"; it relies on "flawed and illogical" arguments; and its attacks on evolution "have been refuted by the scientific community."

The judge also said: "It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy."

C'mon Pat, what say you now?

 

[moxdevil]

District Judge John E. Jones, well done

"Richard Thompson, president and chief counsel of the Thomas More Law Center in Ann Arbor, Mich., which represented the school district and describes its mission as defending the religious freedom of Christians, said: "What this really looks like is an ad hominem attack on scientists who happen to believe in God."

Bless his little brain, use all the latin terms you want Dick your argument will always ring hollow, especially as the majority of scientists who you purport to be representing want nothing to do with the intellectual garbage that is ID theory. At best it's a case of ad hominem tu quoque, as they allege that the scientific community is an atheist conspiracy etc... and attempt to discredit the judge by accusing him of ad hominem attack. boo hoo! :twisted:

"Former school board member William Buckingham, who advanced the policy, said from his new home in Mt. Airy, N.C., that he still feels the board did the right thing.

"I'm still waiting for a judge or anyone to show me anywhere in the Constitution where there's a separation of church and state," he said. "We didn't lose; we were robbed."

Ah no one does the persecution complex quite like a Christian who has had everything in their favour for 1700 years. :butt:

Got this sent to me-

http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller_342.pdf

"Although Defendants attempt to persuade this Court that each Board member who voted for the biology curriculum change did so for the secular purposed of improving science education and to exercise critical thinking skills, their contentions are simply irreconcilable with the record evidence. Their asserted purposes are a sham, and they are accordingly unavailing..." (p.130)

Makes pleasant reading. :mrgreen:

Pages 31-33, on the "Of Pandas and People" is quite funny too. Think i'll just do a quick :banana: and again :banana:

As for Pat, well i'm sure that the judge will be off to fiery hell, to be tormented for eternity.

 

[mindido]

Mox,

That was an interesting read. Really liked the info on "Panda's". Man, you would have thought they would have covered their tracks better than that.

Also found the section on the coercion used by the (former) board members quite interesting (p. 128-130).

And finally, just loved this quote from the judge:

"It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy."

It will now be interesting to see the effects of this on the rest of the country.

 

[moxdevil]

Surprising just how much ground is covered, also funny just how ridiculous the IDiots come across, time and again they have to admit to deceit, outright lying, lack of evidence, the un-testability of their so called theory, etc. really anybody would think that we are dealing with morons- i feel embarrassed myself for them.

They are (and come across) as an ignorant child challenging the teacher on something they themselves know nothing about. It shows time and again. Their arguments are incredibly silly- Paley's for example.

Some fave's-

p.25. Space alien, or time travelling cell biologist also put forward by ID for designer! (been watching too much Dr Who me thinks)

p.31. noted that not one defense expert was able to explain how the supernatural action suggested by id could be anything other than an inherently religious proposition. (what you mean you have to prove something? nah religion doesn't do that as a matter of course...er we mean science, er creationism, er christian science, no wait Intelligent Design- got there eventually!)

I hope this will act as a precedent, but i doubt it unfortunately. :sad:

 

[mindido]

Mox,

I haven't read the decision thoroughly as of yet, but I think its going to be difficult for the right to downplay this effectively (although Fox News is certainly trying). Since the judge is a Bush appointee they're in a bit of a bind.

I don't know if you have Fox News over there but its really kind of funny (?) how they're using half truths to advance their position. But they always do that anyway.

Still haven't heard a pip out of Robertson yet. But maybe he's appointed Fox News to be his spokesman.

 

[moxdevil]

Mox,

I haven't read the decision thoroughly as of yet, but I think its going to be difficult for the right to downplay this effectively (although Fox News is certainly trying). Since the judge is a Bush appointee they're in a bit of a bind.

I don't know if you have Fox News over there but its really kind of funny (?) how they're using half truths to advance their position. But they always do that anyway.

Still haven't heard a pip out of Robertson yet. But maybe he's appointed Fox News to be his spokesman.

Got me worried there, i thought he's read it already! Damn i'm slow bordering on pedestrian. :mrgreen:

We get Fox News on satellite, but i have to say it pains me to watch it even for a few minutes as it is so overtly biased. Still, of the few minutes i've dared to watch i haven't seen any mention of the ruling.

(ps does the stateside version of Fox have so much weather reporting as the one we get here, we call it the ‘weather channel’ because it's forever flicking-off to maps of the world and current temperatures)

I read some interview with Pat where he was going on about atheism and evolution blah blah blah, the guy just mouths off without thinking first its amazing to watch, a real lesson in 'shit before intelligence'.

edit: found it http://mediamatters.org/items/200512190011

 

[mindido]

Mox,

It is a pain to watch that channel but, you have to know what the other side is saying. Its just too bad others can't see through their half truths (says something great about the American educational system, doesn't it).

And no, they don't have that much weather here (no more than anyone else), we already have a real weather channel.

Last night, I checked Robertsons broadcast a couple of times (during commercials of the Daily Show) to see if he said anything but no joy. Oh well, I'm sure he won't be able to keep his big trap shut for long.

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

You know what i've noticed about democrats other than there are fewer each day? The fact that you never seem to disagree on anything. Before you state that because of this, then you must be right about everything, first realize that it didn't used to be this way. You can't sit through Fox news?! Shit i watch Bill Maher and Jon Stewart all the time and agree with pretty much nothing. I love Mr. Stewart, he is one of the few people that can win an argument with facial expressions and a calm attitude. But he hurts your cause. Why? Remember when he said to Tucker that they were dividing the country? Well He is dividing the democrats and hurting them and here's why: 90% of his jokes are about Bush and religion. Ok Bush is fair game but there is such a thing as religious left. Do you think they applaud him when he makes fun of people who say Merry Christmas in the start of December not wanting to realize that it is short for "Have a Merry Christmas"? When there are 9 out of 10 people that believe in heaven, does this not hurt votes? Now does this pointing fingers at someone and accusing them of division not seem a little hypocritical? I realize he is speaking his mind, you know like Tucker does. You know when shit is really gonna hit the fan? Its gonna hit the fan when you democrats realize this:................holiday-holyday, holyday- holiday. You haven't caught on yet, but i bet you will by this time next year. I realize that for the sake of votes and bad PR you have given up the whole kill Christmas idea, but it will continue again at a later date, and it will again hurt you. Then the cycle of "hurt yourself and bitch about it" will continue on and on. You go Jon. You go boy.

 

[Iceberg]

Don't get me started about Tucker Carlson! After what he said about my country ... AARRGGHH!!! I could snap his neck in half! :breathefi

 

[Cman]

Don't get me started about Tucker Carlson! After what he said about my country ... AARRGGHH!!! I could snap his neck in half! :breathefi

what he said and ann coulter

 

[mindido]

Duke,

First off, I'm not a Democrat, I'm an Independent (meaning I sometimes vote for Dems, sometimes Reps but most often other Independents). I have no idea what Mox is but its not a Dem. (I don't think they exist across the pond). Second, I don't think you understand the Dems very well. Will Rogers probably said it best,

"I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat."

And as I said in my earlier post, I do listen to (and occasionally watch) Fox News just to keep up with the clap trap they are spouting. I am very familiar with how they operate. There is no question (from Roger Ailes on down) that they are the most biased network in existance. Shoot, they don't hide it, they're proud of it.

"Remember when he said to Tucker that they were dividing the country?"

Well, isn't that true? Seems to me, and just about everyone else, that the US is now just about as divided as its ever been (short of the Civil War and Viet Nam). The Dems aren't responsible for Iraq.

"Ok Bush is fair game but there is such a thing as religious left."

Please describe. Not sure what your talking about here.

"When there are 9 out of 10 people that believe in heaven,"

Ugh, where did you get that statistic? And even if true, so what! The argument in this thread is not with religion, its with religious fanaticism! No matter where it comes from.

"Now does this pointing fingers at someone and accusing them of division not seem a little hypocritical?"

I don't remember the episode with Tucker so I can't really comment on it. But, as I mentioned earlier, is there any doubt that the US is now more divided than before Bush went into Iraq?

And XMas? I personally don't care either way. I think this whole issue is something dreamed up by the Religious Right and Fox News to keep their followers agitated. Who cares?

But I do agree with you on one thing. Keep it up Jon! Love the show!

 

[moxdevil]

My political leanings would categorise me as the 'Red Menace', the 'Boogeyman',... which probably wouldn't surprise some here. That pretty much rules me out of the democrat’s fan club. :twisted:

I saw about a week back on Fox News the whole 'attack on Christmas' rubbish, and i laughed. Really it's a poor caricature to think that lefty's (in this case Dems. in contrast to Reps.) give a toss about whether Christmas is celebrated or not.

I remember somebody saying something of me about not being happy until people stop buying their Christmas trees. I personally couldn't care less, others who belong to the 'conspiracy' that i'm part of couldn't care less. Really even Christians today barely associate Christmas with religion, and whether you want to go out and buy a tree as part of this or that festival or follow the supposed example of St. Nicholas is your own prerogative, and is very far down the list of 'we must get rid of' that supposedly belongs to the Left. I agree with Min. it's just typical fear mongering from the religious right- ‘they hate Christmas, they hate goodwill, they hate holidays’, etc... Honestly without the Democrats or Lefty’s the god-fearing Republicans would still manage to find the ‘them against us’ group for everybody to rally against.

As for Jon Stewart, well he can get on my nerves at times with the whole 'making strange noises and facial expressions to ridicule' thing, but then that’s probably a taste of humour difference across the pond.

Edit: Besides who cares? let's all just enjoy the company of loved one's and try to survive through to the new year! Happy Holidays! (Christmas or whatever)

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

Don't get me started about Tucker Carlson! After what he said about my country ... AARRGGHH!!! I could snap his neck in half! :breathefi

haha i missed that one must've been pretty bad.

"Well, isn't that true? Seems to me, and just about everyone else, that the US is now just about as divided as its ever been (short of the Civil War and Viet Nam). The Dems aren't responsible for Iraq."

If it's true then this thread is dividing the nation lol. Hmm a nation divided? We pretty much disagree with the war and the same ol' shit we always have and will, so i don't know where you get that everyone seems to believe we are so divided. OHHHH that's right the media says we are!! Sometimes a few groups will hold up some signs walk around a bit and head off to Krispy Kreme but thats about the extent of it. In fact i can't remember our disputes being as healthy as they currently are. Cival War and Nam? That fuck'n media, man it's rotten as week old flesh. The left wants happy holiday's then the right complains. The right uses intelligence to keep us safe and the left complains. This is a great thing as it insures an equal balance. It's just how it is. Just another day, hardly this great division you think it is.

 

[mindido]

Duke,

"i don't know where you get that everyone seems to believe we are so divided."

I take it you rarely watch CSPAN or any of the other news channels, or even pay a lot of attention to elections. It seems fairly clear that when you have politicians screaming at each other, using very derisive terms, and a major difference between red and blue states, there is some definite division going on.

Edit*

Oh, and just in case, look what happens to a scientist that goes off the straight and narrow:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4554422.stm

I wouldn't want to be this guy for anything. Peer review does have its reasons for being. Can't exactly do that with a supernatural claim.

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

The only thing that matters to me is the people min. To some the Jerry Springerism that goes on between the politicians is a drug fix. Fuck the news and fuck the politicians. They are fighting over power and opinions. Big difference between a division of politicians and a division in the people. The same difference is between reality and wonderland. I see what you mean, but this is what happens with every president who makes big moves. People will argue. Anyone who was alive during FDR or Nixon will tell you this ain't shit and definately not new. You were right earlier, i made the post in the wrong thread lol I think we're fuck'n this one up now.

 

[Red Horse]

I am a male...I have a beard and long hair...there are religions and cults that worship me...I've been adored by some, terrifying to others...some say I'm everywhere, nowhere, dead or didn't even exist at all...

HO HO HO

Merry Christmas to all!

 

[mindido]

You know Duke,

That may be the smartest thing you've ever said.