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another hurricane...
- Thread starter Gowar
- Start date
Hey Kaboom,
"touched me in a bad way"
Thats what happens in situations like this, at least if your human. Mine came yesterday when I was watching CNN and they were at the convention center. They showed two bodies from a distance and then did a close up of one in a wheel chair. Just at that moment it flashed in my mind, "Hey, that could be my mom!" Thats when I got really pissed and wrote my first post in this thread.
If your human, theres no way that you can't be affected by this event. But, we have to learn from this and my great fear is that we won't. If we don't, we or following generations, will go through this again. Thats why politics should be a part of this thread. For now though, lets try and keep it constructive.
"touched me in a bad way"
Thats what happens in situations like this, at least if your human. Mine came yesterday when I was watching CNN and they were at the convention center. They showed two bodies from a distance and then did a close up of one in a wheel chair. Just at that moment it flashed in my mind, "Hey, that could be my mom!" Thats when I got really pissed and wrote my first post in this thread.
If your human, theres no way that you can't be affected by this event. But, we have to learn from this and my great fear is that we won't. If we don't, we or following generations, will go through this again. Thats why politics should be a part of this thread. For now though, lets try and keep it constructive.
Ankit Pande
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Hurricane Katrina
I was a lil kid when the gulf was started near my city (i wasn't in Iraq) i saw dead bodies covered in blood, babies crying because there hands lay 10 feet away from there body.
I was back in India when the communal riots broke out ... i saw a guy being shot on the head by a sniper. I fainted right there. I couldnt talk for a week.
Now when i see the hurricane disaster in NO i go thru the same feelins over again. Somebody help that kid ... somebody provide them shelter .... somebody plz save them all.
I wasnt gonna post anything until all the "mess" here had cleared up ... now i see it is. I know u guys are donating for the relief fund. But what i ask of u guys to more understanding of the people' s situation there. They are pretty messed up right now. It might take a 5 years (or less/more) to rebuilt the city. But it will take a lifetime for the survivors to forget it.
*change of topic*
Gatorman lives in NO??
Man ... he usually posts everyday. I really hope he is ok.
I was a lil kid when the gulf was started near my city (i wasn't in Iraq) i saw dead bodies covered in blood, babies crying because there hands lay 10 feet away from there body.
I was back in India when the communal riots broke out ... i saw a guy being shot on the head by a sniper. I fainted right there. I couldnt talk for a week.
Now when i see the hurricane disaster in NO i go thru the same feelins over again. Somebody help that kid ... somebody provide them shelter .... somebody plz save them all.
I wasnt gonna post anything until all the "mess" here had cleared up ... now i see it is. I know u guys are donating for the relief fund. But what i ask of u guys to more understanding of the people' s situation there. They are pretty messed up right now. It might take a 5 years (or less/more) to rebuilt the city. But it will take a lifetime for the survivors to forget it.
*change of topic*
Gatorman lives in NO??
Man ... he usually posts everyday. I really hope he is ok.
Was watching some news footage of the immediate action that went on on Friday and on closer inspection of this repeated footage, I noticed that the Chinooks dropping sandbags to plug gaps in the dyke are actually Singaporean copters!! :headbang: Then I remembered that we have units of our Air Force that are attached to American bases for training.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16477524%5E1702,00.html
These were the same brave fellas that were the first in Sumatra after Tsunami hit. That makes me damn proud that altho Bush hasn't asked for help, we're already there making a difference. Rawk On RSAF!! :headbang:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16477524%5E1702,00.html
These were the same brave fellas that were the first in Sumatra after Tsunami hit. That makes me damn proud that altho Bush hasn't asked for help, we're already there making a difference. Rawk On RSAF!! :headbang:
endymion
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See cable, don't worry man, your friends and allies are with you. Singapore's swung into action, and so far Australia has given $10 million straight away, sent a large contingent of emergency specialists, and the Red Cross is driving the collection among private citizens.
We've been told that the Aussie governement has been held off by the US for a while from helping, don't know why, (maybe they just don't want more people heading to NO) but as soon as we're allowed in, you know the Aussies will have your back.
We've been told that the Aussie governement has been held off by the US for a while from helping, don't know why, (maybe they just don't want more people heading to NO) but as soon as we're allowed in, you know the Aussies will have your back.
Some detail of what Canada is doing to help in this desperate time:
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/09/04/medical-supplies-to-New-Orleans0904.html
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/09/04/medical-supplies-to-New-Orleans0904.html
gatsby
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Why is it necessary to pass a bill in your congress for immediate disaster relief? It sounds very bureaucratic to me. To be true, the whole handling of the situation seems rather un-American. I thought that many things were handled on a local / state level in the US. Waiting for national agencies to act in situations like this is not good. It would be terrible if the EU in Brussels were responsible for disaster help in EU countries.
I have seen first hand in Holland during a fireworks disaster a couple of years ago how things work here. First local emergency workers came to the scene, then firemen from other provinces came when they heared about it. Even German firemen and medical teams came and started working without anyone asking them for help. Although this disaster can not be compared with the huge disaster in Louisiana, it is clear to me that a bottom-up approach is better for emergencies.
I have seen first hand in Holland during a fireworks disaster a couple of years ago how things work here. First local emergency workers came to the scene, then firemen from other provinces came when they heared about it. Even German firemen and medical teams came and started working without anyone asking them for help. Although this disaster can not be compared with the huge disaster in Louisiana, it is clear to me that a bottom-up approach is better for emergencies.
gatsby,
Your correct, it is very bureaucratic, but thats the way it is set up. This is how I understand the procedure. First, there must be an emergency such as 9/11 or Katrina (very different but also much the same). The local official (in this case the Mayor of N.O.) must first ask for help from the Governor of the State (Louisiana) whom then must ask the President. The Governor has the ability to declare a State of Emergency and to mobilize State National Guard. But the President, only, has the ability to mobilize the National Guard from other States. He can do that without permission of Congress IN AN EMERGENCY (which this deninitely is). Congress is required to authorize expenditures for the emergency but that can be done after the fact. The key word here is EMERGENCY. Military troops cannot be used within the US against American citizens (supposedly).
Your correct, it is very bureaucratic, but thats the way it is set up. This is how I understand the procedure. First, there must be an emergency such as 9/11 or Katrina (very different but also much the same). The local official (in this case the Mayor of N.O.) must first ask for help from the Governor of the State (Louisiana) whom then must ask the President. The Governor has the ability to declare a State of Emergency and to mobilize State National Guard. But the President, only, has the ability to mobilize the National Guard from other States. He can do that without permission of Congress IN AN EMERGENCY (which this deninitely is). Congress is required to authorize expenditures for the emergency but that can be done after the fact. The key word here is EMERGENCY. Military troops cannot be used within the US against American citizens (supposedly).
Oh the stories that are going to come out of this. Did anyone else happen to see Nightline last night?
Ted Koppel had two interviews that I found especially interesting. One was with the manager of the Superdome. He was saying that the Superdome is probably going to have to be bulldozed and replaced! Is the profiteering starting already?
And racism may have played a part in this after all. It seems there is a parish adjacent to N.O. that is fairly affluent. Apparently on the pretext that a looter had gotten into the parish and started a fire, the parish sheriff stationed deputies at a key bridge crossing and wouldn't allow anyone from N.O. across the bridge. Koppel apparently learned the story from Mayor Nagin and confirmed that this did happen with the parish sheriff, although he did have a bit different take on the situation.
Ted Koppel had two interviews that I found especially interesting. One was with the manager of the Superdome. He was saying that the Superdome is probably going to have to be bulldozed and replaced! Is the profiteering starting already?
And racism may have played a part in this after all. It seems there is a parish adjacent to N.O. that is fairly affluent. Apparently on the pretext that a looter had gotten into the parish and started a fire, the parish sheriff stationed deputies at a key bridge crossing and wouldn't allow anyone from N.O. across the bridge. Koppel apparently learned the story from Mayor Nagin and confirmed that this did happen with the parish sheriff, although he did have a bit different take on the situation.
singhr
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I'm not sure what the media is like in the US as far as the different spin put on events from network to network, but here in Canada, there is a distinct difference in political view from news report to news report. I'm sure as far as the racism part goes, some stations may blow the whole event out of proportion. Obviously there will be racism there in some aspects, but it's all about how it's reported on how the general public will receive events as happening...mindido said:
I just want to know why the hurricane names are Katrina, Maria, David ? Who was the idiot that came up with this system ? I think the reason most people don't hall-ass, is because it's a name . Something we can relate too. If I say, a collection of large numbers of white cells called polymorphonuclear , does'nt sound so bad. But if you say "PUS" eeeewww !
singhr
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cableguy
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i have been out of town fishing, and as such missed an opprotunity for a timely revision... on saturday, i heard something on the radio about nations lining up with offered assistance, and much to my surprise, france headed the list, with germany second... i was shocked, and would like to retract much of what i said regarding international relief for this disaster... i was right at the time, but the situation has changed, and i am willing to roll with what is, not what was...
a governor who waited 24 hours before issuing a call for evacuation and declaring the state a disaster area, thus opening it to assistance by the military... a mayor incapable of anything beyond complete mental collapse and name calling... government beaurocracies doing what they do best--nothing... there will be plenty of blame to share, but there are lives to save, bodies to recover, and several cities and towns to resurrect somehow, and somewhere... oh, and though it has stopped for the most part, the looters should have been shot--period--if they had anything not classified as food, water, or medical supplies...
a governor who waited 24 hours before issuing a call for evacuation and declaring the state a disaster area, thus opening it to assistance by the military... a mayor incapable of anything beyond complete mental collapse and name calling... government beaurocracies doing what they do best--nothing... there will be plenty of blame to share, but there are lives to save, bodies to recover, and several cities and towns to resurrect somehow, and somewhere... oh, and though it has stopped for the most part, the looters should have been shot--period--if they had anything not classified as food, water, or medical supplies...
Just in case anyone missed it, current estimates are that the federal cost (not including State or local) just for the cleanup are at least $200 billion ($100 billion more than a couple of days ago and way more than the initial estimates of $9 to $15 billion. According to the feds, they are now spending about $2 billion per day (so that $200 billion estimate will be out the window shortly).
And I can virtually guarantee that we are going to learn almost nothing from this.
And I can virtually guarantee that we are going to learn almost nothing from this.
Hey Con,
That is correct, but remember, these are only preliminary fed expenses for the cleanup (who knows what State and local expenses will be). Rebuilding???? You could probably pick just about any number and it would be low (if, that is, they're planning on rebuilding the entire city of N.O., which it appears they are).
That is correct, but remember, these are only preliminary fed expenses for the cleanup (who knows what State and local expenses will be). Rebuilding???? You could probably pick just about any number and it would be low (if, that is, they're planning on rebuilding the entire city of N.O., which it appears they are).
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I heard today that the man that was quoted in that report on Sportscenter, who got it from Nightline, was wrong. It will cost a lot of money to fix and repair the Superdome, but it is still usable now. But in a couple months when all the water is gone and they get a true structural look at the building, then that may change.
I think the Saints should play at LSU and the Alamodome, even if attendance may be bad, which it would be if it was still in Lousiana and this happened. I just hope they don't have to play on the road the entire year.
I hear somewhere that because of the land erosion that happens all the time around the area, that in 50-100 years, the ocean would be in downtown New Orleans anyway, so it would be useless to rebuild it in the exact place. I think it might of been CNN where I heard this. This week's Time goes into some of this as well.
I think the Saints should play at LSU and the Alamodome, even if attendance may be bad, which it would be if it was still in Lousiana and this happened. I just hope they don't have to play on the road the entire year.
I hear somewhere that because of the land erosion that happens all the time around the area, that in 50-100 years, the ocean would be in downtown New Orleans anyway, so it would be useless to rebuild it in the exact place. I think it might of been CNN where I heard this. This week's Time goes into some of this as well.
Kaboom,
Yeah, I've heard many of the same things today. There does seem to be some backpeddling on the Superdome, but I guess time will tell.
LSU would seem to be a logical place for the Saints to play but I wonder how many people would actually attend. Pro football would probably not be high on anyones priorities at the moment. They should probably try a game or two there just to judge the fan reaction but not be surprised if its low and maybe just play the rest of the games on the road. That may be a good way of making a few bucks for the relief effort.
"I hear somewhere that because of the land erosion that happens all the time around the area, that in 50-100 years, the ocean would be in downtown New Orleans anyway, so it would be useless to rebuild it in the exact place. I think it might of been CNN where I heard this. This week's Time goes into some of this as well."
This is only a small part of what is known about the geology of N.O. A brief synopsis. When N.O. was founded about 250 years ago by the French, N.O. was about 9 ft. above sea level. The problem is that N.O. is built on silt. I don't know if you know what that is but it is very fine soil that was placed there by periodic flooding (I know you've seen it, just go down to a local river or stream bank and you'll find lots of it). Its advantage is that its very fertile, you can grow lots of really good crops on it, but its disadvantage is that its not good for building on. When you build on it, it dries out and compacts. The compaction leads to a lowered topography, which is exactly why N.O. is in its present situation. The last statistic I saw, several years ago, was that, on average, N.O. is sinking at a rate of about 1/8 in. per year (some places more, some less).
"so it would be useless to rebuild it in the exact place."
This is my point exactly. We're going to spend roughly $200 billion just to clean up the mess and we may see 10,000 people dead. If the pols and special interests get their way, we'll spend another $200 billion (probably way more) to rebuild it. Next month, year, decade there will be another Cat 4 or 5 that will come along and wipe it out again. Does that make sense? Not to me.
Our options are to either move N.O. somewhere else (not likely), disperse the population (thats already been done) and rebuild only a small section of it (basically the French Quarter and the port), or let it go back to what it has been (the worst choice).
What will happen? We'll thats basically up to us. Every pol thats even brought up the thought of not rebuilding has been castigated to no end (Dennis Hastert, R-ILL and Speaker of the House, was the first that I heard of to bring up the subject and he had to apologize). And he's not the only one.
Thats why I said a few posts ago that I can virtually guarantee that we're not going to learn a darn thing from this. We're going to go through this again, and again.
Yeah, I've heard many of the same things today. There does seem to be some backpeddling on the Superdome, but I guess time will tell.
LSU would seem to be a logical place for the Saints to play but I wonder how many people would actually attend. Pro football would probably not be high on anyones priorities at the moment. They should probably try a game or two there just to judge the fan reaction but not be surprised if its low and maybe just play the rest of the games on the road. That may be a good way of making a few bucks for the relief effort.
"I hear somewhere that because of the land erosion that happens all the time around the area, that in 50-100 years, the ocean would be in downtown New Orleans anyway, so it would be useless to rebuild it in the exact place. I think it might of been CNN where I heard this. This week's Time goes into some of this as well."
This is only a small part of what is known about the geology of N.O. A brief synopsis. When N.O. was founded about 250 years ago by the French, N.O. was about 9 ft. above sea level. The problem is that N.O. is built on silt. I don't know if you know what that is but it is very fine soil that was placed there by periodic flooding (I know you've seen it, just go down to a local river or stream bank and you'll find lots of it). Its advantage is that its very fertile, you can grow lots of really good crops on it, but its disadvantage is that its not good for building on. When you build on it, it dries out and compacts. The compaction leads to a lowered topography, which is exactly why N.O. is in its present situation. The last statistic I saw, several years ago, was that, on average, N.O. is sinking at a rate of about 1/8 in. per year (some places more, some less).
"so it would be useless to rebuild it in the exact place."
This is my point exactly. We're going to spend roughly $200 billion just to clean up the mess and we may see 10,000 people dead. If the pols and special interests get their way, we'll spend another $200 billion (probably way more) to rebuild it. Next month, year, decade there will be another Cat 4 or 5 that will come along and wipe it out again. Does that make sense? Not to me.
Our options are to either move N.O. somewhere else (not likely), disperse the population (thats already been done) and rebuild only a small section of it (basically the French Quarter and the port), or let it go back to what it has been (the worst choice).
What will happen? We'll thats basically up to us. Every pol thats even brought up the thought of not rebuilding has been castigated to no end (Dennis Hastert, R-ILL and Speaker of the House, was the first that I heard of to bring up the subject and he had to apologize). And he's not the only one.
Thats why I said a few posts ago that I can virtually guarantee that we're not going to learn a darn thing from this. We're going to go through this again, and again.
