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another hurricane...
- Thread starter Gowar
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I am against the federal government paying to rebuild the areas hit by the hurricanes. If the idiots made a choice not to have insurance then why should we pay to bail them out. I carry insurance for that reason.
To let everyone know the Gulf Coast is not wiped out.
To let everyone know the Gulf Coast is not wiped out.
Tex,
Hell has frozen over again, I actually agree with you on something (sort of). We shouldn't be paying to rebuild N.O., Gulfport, etc. where they are (at least entirely). N.O. has been under water at least 5 times before, and will be again. There is no doubt of that. If we were smart (which we aren't) we'd figure out how far the storm surge went inland, then double the distance, and ban any further construction within that distance from the coast. But will we do that? No way! We'd be infringing on peoples property rights! Even though its stupid to rebuild in an area that we know will be wiped out again.
Insurance? Less than 40% of people in N.O. and the Gulf coast had effective property insurance and even less had either hurricane or flood insurance (its now interesting to see how insurance companies are trying to weasel out of those plans). Seems to me that, if someone is going to be allowed to build in that area again, it should be required! But will that happen? Again, no way. It costs too much (and is now going to cost even more, a lot more)!
So Tex, you may want to take another look at your insurance and keep a close eye on whats happening over on the Gulf. This is going to be very interesting.
Also, I don't think anyone has said that the Gulf coast is entirely wiped out. What has been mentioned is that some people are saying that we have now entered a period of time where for the next 10 to 30 years we can expect to see more hurricanes of this magnitude. OK, if thats correct, how much of the coast will remain after that? And how much are we willing to pay if we get 2 or 3 of these storms every year?
Hell has frozen over again, I actually agree with you on something (sort of). We shouldn't be paying to rebuild N.O., Gulfport, etc. where they are (at least entirely). N.O. has been under water at least 5 times before, and will be again. There is no doubt of that. If we were smart (which we aren't) we'd figure out how far the storm surge went inland, then double the distance, and ban any further construction within that distance from the coast. But will we do that? No way! We'd be infringing on peoples property rights! Even though its stupid to rebuild in an area that we know will be wiped out again.
Insurance? Less than 40% of people in N.O. and the Gulf coast had effective property insurance and even less had either hurricane or flood insurance (its now interesting to see how insurance companies are trying to weasel out of those plans). Seems to me that, if someone is going to be allowed to build in that area again, it should be required! But will that happen? Again, no way. It costs too much (and is now going to cost even more, a lot more)!
So Tex, you may want to take another look at your insurance and keep a close eye on whats happening over on the Gulf. This is going to be very interesting.
Also, I don't think anyone has said that the Gulf coast is entirely wiped out. What has been mentioned is that some people are saying that we have now entered a period of time where for the next 10 to 30 years we can expect to see more hurricanes of this magnitude. OK, if thats correct, how much of the coast will remain after that? And how much are we willing to pay if we get 2 or 3 of these storms every year?
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N.O. should take a page out of the Seattle History book and rebuild the low parts of the city on top op the old.
Why on earth would you live in a place 12 feet below sea level next door to a large body of water and not carry flood insurance.
Why on earth would you live in a place 12 feet below sea level next door to a large body of water and not carry flood insurance.
Tex,
"N.O. should take a page out of the Seattle History book and rebuild the low parts of the city on top op the old."
Geez, I wonder how much dirt and fill that would require? Millions of tons?
"Why on earth would you live in a place 12 feet below sea level next door to a large body of water and not carry flood insurance."
Well, since N.O. was one of the poorest and most corrupt cities in the US, I'm sure there were ways around it. Doesn't make any sense to me either but....
And it wasn't only the residents of N.O. From what I've read and seen, most of the people along the coast don't carry it.
"N.O. should take a page out of the Seattle History book and rebuild the low parts of the city on top op the old."
Geez, I wonder how much dirt and fill that would require? Millions of tons?
"Why on earth would you live in a place 12 feet below sea level next door to a large body of water and not carry flood insurance."
Well, since N.O. was one of the poorest and most corrupt cities in the US, I'm sure there were ways around it. Doesn't make any sense to me either but....
And it wasn't only the residents of N.O. From what I've read and seen, most of the people along the coast don't carry it.
cableguy
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conman, you are correct, these TWO hurricanes hit economically important stuff... most hurricanes/tropical storms do NOT.. that is what i said... that is what i meant, and that is completely factual...
mindido, with neighbors like me, you would be surrounded by people who are responsible enough to plan for things like this, and who wont be beating down your door for a handout every time something goes wrong... personal responsibility isnt such a bad thing, especially when concentrated in a large number of people... sadly, that seems to be mostly a thing of the past...
mindido, with neighbors like me, you would be surrounded by people who are responsible enough to plan for things like this, and who wont be beating down your door for a handout every time something goes wrong... personal responsibility isnt such a bad thing, especially when concentrated in a large number of people... sadly, that seems to be mostly a thing of the past...
cartman,
"most hurricanes/tropical storms do NOT..."
That may have been the case 30 years ago, but that has changed. Have you been to the Gulf Coast lately? There are very few natural areas remaining. Human populations have exploded along the coast in the last 30 years (especially in FL, AL, MS and Mexico) to the point where it seems your driving from one suburb to another, hard to tell one from another. So nowadays, a hurricane gets loose in the Gulf, its going to hit something of value. So your only partially correct, most hurricanes stay out in the Atlantic and only bother a few ships, but watch out (from now on) when they make their way into the Gulf. There's just about no place remaining that hasn't been built on.
"you would be surrounded by people who are responsible enough to plan for things like this,"
Really? How exactly do you plan for a Cat 4 or 5? The feds, who are supposed to plan for stuff like this, sure did a lousy job. And you can do better?
"most hurricanes/tropical storms do NOT..."
That may have been the case 30 years ago, but that has changed. Have you been to the Gulf Coast lately? There are very few natural areas remaining. Human populations have exploded along the coast in the last 30 years (especially in FL, AL, MS and Mexico) to the point where it seems your driving from one suburb to another, hard to tell one from another. So nowadays, a hurricane gets loose in the Gulf, its going to hit something of value. So your only partially correct, most hurricanes stay out in the Atlantic and only bother a few ships, but watch out (from now on) when they make their way into the Gulf. There's just about no place remaining that hasn't been built on.
"you would be surrounded by people who are responsible enough to plan for things like this,"
Really? How exactly do you plan for a Cat 4 or 5? The feds, who are supposed to plan for stuff like this, sure did a lousy job. And you can do better?
Hurricane Wilma
(It's not there yet, but with just 20 knots to go to reach hurricane strength, it's only a matter of a day or so.)
Another named storm in the Atlantic/Caribbean/Gulf of Mexico sector, bringing the total to 21 for 2005, and the season still has a month-and-a-half left. This equals the record set in 1933.
The naming of storms is very recent, so it is true we do not know how many THE record would be. However, with lower sea surface temperatures and lower atmospheric temperatures over the last millennium, it is unlikely that many more would have occurred.
What hasn't happened before is for these named storms to get into the Greek alphabet (i.e. Tropical Storm Alpha, Hurricane Beta, Tropical Depression Gamma, etc.). This seems very likely, since "W" is the last letter used in this naming. (X, Y, and Z don't have enough names, because after a memorable or particularly strong storm, its name is "retired," similar to a great pro athlete's number.)
Anyway, watch out Florida! Wilma should make landfall around the Tampa-St. Petersburg area (but could reach as far west as Tallahassee or Pensacola and as far east as Miami. My guess is it is a Category 3 upon landfall with a maximum Category 4 strength at some time Thursday or Friday.
(It's not there yet, but with just 20 knots to go to reach hurricane strength, it's only a matter of a day or so.)
Another named storm in the Atlantic/Caribbean/Gulf of Mexico sector, bringing the total to 21 for 2005, and the season still has a month-and-a-half left. This equals the record set in 1933.
The naming of storms is very recent, so it is true we do not know how many THE record would be. However, with lower sea surface temperatures and lower atmospheric temperatures over the last millennium, it is unlikely that many more would have occurred.
What hasn't happened before is for these named storms to get into the Greek alphabet (i.e. Tropical Storm Alpha, Hurricane Beta, Tropical Depression Gamma, etc.). This seems very likely, since "W" is the last letter used in this naming. (X, Y, and Z don't have enough names, because after a memorable or particularly strong storm, its name is "retired," similar to a great pro athlete's number.)
Anyway, watch out Florida! Wilma should make landfall around the Tampa-St. Petersburg area (but could reach as far west as Tallahassee or Pensacola and as far east as Miami. My guess is it is a Category 3 upon landfall with a maximum Category 4 strength at some time Thursday or Friday.
Nizzle, there's six weeks remaining in the average season. It looks like more are to come, possibly another three or four. The waters are certainly warm enough to brew up some more, even after the season "officially" ends.
cableguy
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mindido, hurricanes happen, they have always happened, and they always will in the future... there are limits to building technology and justifiable cost that make "hurricane-proofing" most areas impossible... what you can do is not live there in the first place...
for those that do, an evacuation plan for extreme circumstances is a must.. i dont favor forced evacuations, so i would also recommend having enough food and water to last for a couple weeks if necessary... the food and water should be purchased BEFORE there is a hurricane on the horizon... also, having a shotgun and plenty of ammo would be good to keep looters and other evildoers at bay... insurance for both wind and flood damage would also be something a responsible person would have... too expensive??? move...
those who are irresponsible enough, or stupid enough to stay in place without enough provisions to last are owed NOTHING by the American people, and the folks worldwide... you made your bed, you lay in it... no man or woman should be forced (taxes) to pay for the irresponsibility of others... if one wishes to donate time or money, that should be a choice made of free will, not by an overburdonsome, inefficient, and horribly obtrusive government... you want socialism, move to france...
personally, i would never live in a hurricane zone... someday, i may wish to own property there, but would not have plans to reside there in the late summer and autumn... you can rest assured that any such property WILL be properly insured... i will also choose to not live under any active volcanos or in any flood plain... these seem to be rather common sense decisions to me... in the unlikely event of a catastrophy of some sort where i live, there is enough food for me and my family to last a couple weeks, and plenty of ammo to get more and to defend the home if necessary... oh, and my house is insured against anything that might damage it, too... (tornados are the only real threat, however fleeting, but i do have some basic flood insurance as well, just in case)
regarding the gulf coast, i have actually never been there, but i have lived in this country all my life, and cant recall too many hurricanes that did much damage... andrew, katrina, and i believe floyd are about it... i have intentionally omitted rita, because even at a cat 4, it really didnt do that much... ivan and andrew were only signifigant because of the irresponsibility of the federal government in paying for them... they wrecked a lot of houses and businesses, but not enough to cause a blip in the national economy... government spending created that blip, not the storms...
the gulf coast is vulnerable to hurricanes, as is the entire state of florida, and most of the southeast seaboard.. the point i have been making, and will continue to stand by, is that most hurricanes damage so little of economic signifigance, that it is foolish to design ones life around worst case scenarios... why not plan for a large meteor strike while you are at it?? we got hit twice this year, perhaps a third is in the offing... we will recover, just like always...
for those that do, an evacuation plan for extreme circumstances is a must.. i dont favor forced evacuations, so i would also recommend having enough food and water to last for a couple weeks if necessary... the food and water should be purchased BEFORE there is a hurricane on the horizon... also, having a shotgun and plenty of ammo would be good to keep looters and other evildoers at bay... insurance for both wind and flood damage would also be something a responsible person would have... too expensive??? move...
those who are irresponsible enough, or stupid enough to stay in place without enough provisions to last are owed NOTHING by the American people, and the folks worldwide... you made your bed, you lay in it... no man or woman should be forced (taxes) to pay for the irresponsibility of others... if one wishes to donate time or money, that should be a choice made of free will, not by an overburdonsome, inefficient, and horribly obtrusive government... you want socialism, move to france...
personally, i would never live in a hurricane zone... someday, i may wish to own property there, but would not have plans to reside there in the late summer and autumn... you can rest assured that any such property WILL be properly insured... i will also choose to not live under any active volcanos or in any flood plain... these seem to be rather common sense decisions to me... in the unlikely event of a catastrophy of some sort where i live, there is enough food for me and my family to last a couple weeks, and plenty of ammo to get more and to defend the home if necessary... oh, and my house is insured against anything that might damage it, too... (tornados are the only real threat, however fleeting, but i do have some basic flood insurance as well, just in case)
regarding the gulf coast, i have actually never been there, but i have lived in this country all my life, and cant recall too many hurricanes that did much damage... andrew, katrina, and i believe floyd are about it... i have intentionally omitted rita, because even at a cat 4, it really didnt do that much... ivan and andrew were only signifigant because of the irresponsibility of the federal government in paying for them... they wrecked a lot of houses and businesses, but not enough to cause a blip in the national economy... government spending created that blip, not the storms...
the gulf coast is vulnerable to hurricanes, as is the entire state of florida, and most of the southeast seaboard.. the point i have been making, and will continue to stand by, is that most hurricanes damage so little of economic signifigance, that it is foolish to design ones life around worst case scenarios... why not plan for a large meteor strike while you are at it?? we got hit twice this year, perhaps a third is in the offing... we will recover, just like always...
cartman (I knew you'd like that name),
"thats it, the gulf is done for the season, hurricane-wise, anyway... "
I swear you must live in a cave or something, we still have at least six weeks remaining in the season.
And, by the way, the first cost estimates on Wilma are out and she's going to cost about $10 billion.
And the insurance industry has come out with its estimates for Katrina. "Insured" losses will be about $50 to $55 billion. I wonder who's going to pay for the rest?
"thats it, the gulf is done for the season, hurricane-wise, anyway... "
I swear you must live in a cave or something, we still have at least six weeks remaining in the season.
And, by the way, the first cost estimates on Wilma are out and she's going to cost about $10 billion.
And the insurance industry has come out with its estimates for Katrina. "Insured" losses will be about $50 to $55 billion. I wonder who's going to pay for the rest?
cableguy said:
Nope. Not true. There are five weeks left in the average hurricane season. However, the waters of the Caribbean and almost all of the Gulf of Mexico are still far above what is required (26 C, or about 80 F) for tropical storm formation.
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/tafb/atl_anal.gif
As for the eastern Pacific sector, there is still a few weeks left, as well, but it affects Mexico and Central America, which is something you wouldn't worry about.
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/tafb/pac_anal.gif
cableguy
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what, exactly, has beta done?? i have it for you, from a chicken little website...
sounds bad, but it isnt, unless you happen to be the owner or dweller of one of those buildings... it came, it pissed itself away in a rather insignifigant way, it damaged some things, destroyed some other things, and was done... historically and economically insignifigant... i say now again, the gulf is done with hurricanes of any signifigance for this season... there may be more than a month left, but i am confident that nothing of note will happen...
wilma didnt destroy anything of signifigance in the USA... there will be NO discernable economic impact from it... it came through, it left, it hit nothing important... rather typical, really...
10 billion is based on what?? i am curious... is it the total damage, including mexico and various banana republics, or is it just florida??? im guessing that number wont hold, regardless of what it represents.. in any case, ANY hurricane that hits the US now will cause a lot more damage than an identical twin would have ten years ago.. more people live on the coast, more buildings have been raised on the coast, and more people are living more prosporous lives on the coast... when this happens, there is simply more stuff for a storm to hit.. end result is more damaga, but not a worse storm...
it still falls back to responsibility in construction, maintenance, and owning of enough of the right kind of insurance... a truly devastating hurricane is STILL a fluke event, and wont happen any more frequently than it has through out history... as for the katrina damages, i can only hope that those with the losses cover them for themselves... i also know that some of my money will be taken from me and given to some irresponsible schlubs who didnt plan ahead... there truly is no substitute for responsibility... those here in the US that got hit by the hurricanes got exactly what they should have expected...
you will be happy to know that the house of a certain Rush Limbaugh was hit, and power, as of today, still had not been restored to him... unlike the foolish and irresponsible people of new orleans and other locales, i doubt a single tax dollar will be spent on mr Limbaughs home, as he built well enough to not lose the structure, and is insured well enough to recover any losses... he also had enough provisions to remain in his home if he chooses, along with a generator for electrical needs... naturally, he has more money than most folks, but that is not any excuse... one should not live where one cannot afford to...
sounds bad, but it isnt, unless you happen to be the owner or dweller of one of those buildings... it came, it pissed itself away in a rather insignifigant way, it damaged some things, destroyed some other things, and was done... historically and economically insignifigant... i say now again, the gulf is done with hurricanes of any signifigance for this season... there may be more than a month left, but i am confident that nothing of note will happen...
wilma didnt destroy anything of signifigance in the USA... there will be NO discernable economic impact from it... it came through, it left, it hit nothing important... rather typical, really...
10 billion is based on what?? i am curious... is it the total damage, including mexico and various banana republics, or is it just florida??? im guessing that number wont hold, regardless of what it represents.. in any case, ANY hurricane that hits the US now will cause a lot more damage than an identical twin would have ten years ago.. more people live on the coast, more buildings have been raised on the coast, and more people are living more prosporous lives on the coast... when this happens, there is simply more stuff for a storm to hit.. end result is more damaga, but not a worse storm...
it still falls back to responsibility in construction, maintenance, and owning of enough of the right kind of insurance... a truly devastating hurricane is STILL a fluke event, and wont happen any more frequently than it has through out history... as for the katrina damages, i can only hope that those with the losses cover them for themselves... i also know that some of my money will be taken from me and given to some irresponsible schlubs who didnt plan ahead... there truly is no substitute for responsibility... those here in the US that got hit by the hurricanes got exactly what they should have expected...
you will be happy to know that the house of a certain Rush Limbaugh was hit, and power, as of today, still had not been restored to him... unlike the foolish and irresponsible people of new orleans and other locales, i doubt a single tax dollar will be spent on mr Limbaughs home, as he built well enough to not lose the structure, and is insured well enough to recover any losses... he also had enough provisions to remain in his home if he chooses, along with a generator for electrical needs... naturally, he has more money than most folks, but that is not any excuse... one should not live where one cannot afford to...
cartman,
Now I understand your idiocy, it all makes sense, you still listen to that druggie Limbaugh. Get a life. And look around a little bit. Sheesh.
And the point still holds, the hurricane occurred less than 24 hours after you said there would be no more. Great prediction!
Now I understand your idiocy, it all makes sense, you still listen to that druggie Limbaugh. Get a life. And look around a little bit. Sheesh.
And the point still holds, the hurricane occurred less than 24 hours after you said there would be no more. Great prediction!
