Gas Prices

[Iceberg]

I read a funny rant a while back about Americans complaining so loudly about high gas prices. Here it is:

http://www.gotorion.com/orion/singles4.php?t1=&f1=rants/gasprices.txt

 

[bobobill]

Fuck oil! Why do we still use it anyway? (besides the influence of oil companies)

There is this new fuel called Ethanal 80. Its still not ready for all cars only certain makes and models but it's only 80 cents a gallon. I think its made from corn or somthing. I'm not sure if it's in every state or other countrys but we have it here in Nebraska. Here is more info on Ethanol fuel http://www.ethanolrfa.org/factfic_enperf.html

 

[Ankit Pande]

Fuel

The country with the cheapest fuel cost is KSA ...
$0.30 per Liter - unleaded fuel

 

[mindido]

South central Wisconsin about $2.18 per gallon for 87 octane unleaded. Just on the other side of the border in Illinois its about $1.85. The difference is the gas taxes which, at least in Wisconsin, makes a difference. WI's roads are generally in good shape but most roads in IL are pretty poor or outright bad.

I have a 98 Tacoma 4x4 with standard 5 speed thats not too bad if I keep the speed down and use the cruise, around 22 to 26 mpg

Edit.

Unleaded in Northern IL today 6/06-05 was $2.07.

 

[IHateHonda]

The range here in CT is $2.09 - $2.25 for 87 , $2. 19 - $ 2.35 for 89,
$2. 29 - 2.45 for 91 and $2.35 - $2.55 for 93 .. Diesel is just outragous here. I think its about $2.45 a gallon.

The cheapest fueling stations are Hess which had the 2.09 and Citgo which is about $2.17 .. They have to be the worst gas you can get too. Citgo is known for water and other harmful chems. Sunoco is prolly the best gas and cleanest gas around here.

 

[Iceberg]

One thing I wonder about is why North Americans are always complaining about gas prices when it costs less to buy gasoline than it does water. That a non-renewable resource costs less than a renewable resource is downright crazy.

Most people wouldn't be complaining as much if they were to drive a more fuel-efficient vehicle rather than a gas-guzzling SUV, truck, or sports car, since they would actually be spending less money on gas in total and wouldn't have to fill up every second or third day. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

 

[Cman]

I'll tell you what the problem is. This will sound really sad, but unfortunately its the truth.

Most alternative cars look dorky. Nobody wants to drive a loser car. If they made an electric or hydrogen car that looked like a BMW or a Lamborgini, them EVERYONE would want one.

Its simple really. I don't know why they don't make them look cooler.

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

One thing I wonder about is why North Americans are always complaining about gas prices when it costs less to buy gasoline than it does water. That a non-renewable resource costs less than a renewable resource is downright crazy.

Bottled water is a luxury, gas is a necessity, what is there to wonder about? My water bill was less than $20 last month after washing my ass and my car plus watering the grass. A $20 bill won't fill up my car, does this help?

Anyways Me and my bro got to try a new Nissan suv hybrid and the people were looking at us like we were stupid cause we didn't even realize the thing was already started!! It led me to believe that it will be in the very near future that these things will be awesome and start to slowly take over.

 

[mindido]

Bobobill,

"There is this new fuel called Ethanal 80. Its still not ready for all cars only certain makes and models but it's only 80 cents a gallon. I think its made from corn or somthing. I'm not sure if it's in every state or other countrys but we have it here in Nebraska."

Ethanol has been around now for quite a while but it has (or had) some real problems. Primarily, the total amount of BTU's that go into creating ethanol are greater than the BTU's that you get out. What I mean is this. By the time you add all of the fuel that is used to create the final product (ethanol) such as a tractor and trucks to plow, disc, plant, fertilize, spread insecticide, hoe, harvest, etc, etc.; you wind up using more energy producing the product than you get out of it.

The math is from a class I had back in the mid 80's but I think it holds today. I don't think agricultural practices have changed that much since then to alter the equation significantly. It would be great if it worked but last time I checked that is ethanols major problem.

 

[endymion]

I don't drive, so I pay $0.00 for fuel. Per litre. It's really quite a lot cheaper to use your legs. For now, I have absolutely no interest in a car, but in the future I'd consider getting one if I knew it wasn't going to fuck up the planet, or if it was a cool hovercar that could travel through time - "Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads..."

 

[gatsby]

When i was in the US last year, gas prices were at most half of the same quality gas price in Holland. Even standard US cars have bigass engines that use a lot of fuel. A well tuned V4 engine can be as good as a mediocre V6 and uses less fuel. Still only electric and hydrogen cars will make a big difference for the environment. I agree that a car is absolutely necessary in the US. Many people who haven't been visiting the US don't understand that.

 

[bobobill]

Cars are a very much needed in my city being that we have no public transportation except for cabs wich there are only a few I see in this town.

 

[mindido]

I was listening to something last night (sorry I can't be more specific) but the person being interviewed brought up an interesting point. His point was that since a good portion of our oil supply system is pretty centrally located, we are now only one disaster away from seeing $10 per gallon gas.

His examples were:

1.) A cat 4 or 5 hurricane makes a direct hit on the New Orleans or Houston areas, thus wiping out important petrochemical plants.

2.) The New Madrid fault moves as it did in 1813 and wipes out St. Louis, KC, most of New Orleans , Chicago and areas in between.

Will any of this happen? Hard to say. We've been damn lucky so far as far as the hurricanes go and geologists tell us that the New Madrid fault is probably overdue.

 

[mindido]

Kaboom,

Will any of this happen? Yes, eventually. I think all must agree that we have been darn lucky recently as far as the hurricanes go. Eventually, as all luck does, one will make a direct hit. New Madrid? Time will tell. I just know that the last time it moved, it rattled windows in Boston and changed the course of the Mississippi.

I only heard a small portion of the interview, and probably wasn't paying as much attention as I should have been, but the idea he presented was interesting. Americans are complaining about prices at > $2.00 per gallon, what will happen if it does reach $10. That reaction should be interesting!

I didn't see the FX flick but it sounds like it may be based on some of the research.

 

[mindido]

Just found this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050621/ap_on_bi_ge/gasoline_theft

Gasoline theft across the country is increasing fairly rapidly.

 

[cableguy]

most states have passed new laws to deal with drive offs, including license suspension... the car used in most of these drive offs is usually caught, making this less of an issue than is being reported... with stiffer penalties, more stations going to prepay, and more security cameras in said gas stations, this problem will be mostly a phantom one...

regarding the tripe known as "oil storm," i couldnt bear to sit through more than the first half hour... nonsense, garbage, and other derogatory adjectives as well... it was an anti-gasoline, anti-capitalism, anti-President Bush bit...

many Americans are unaware of what the rest of the world pays for gas... europe i believe is more than 4x what we pay in the US... canada was slightly lower when i was there last, about 3.5x what it is stateside... high gas prices are also relative... adjusted for inflation, where they are now is actually about where they should be... if anyone ever breaks opec, prices will fall dramatically... until such time, the price of oil is artificially inflated... bottom line, it is what it is, and the higher it goes, the closer i am to a price i like on a yukon xl or suburban....

 

[mindido]

Oh cable,

"most states have passed new laws to deal with drive offs..."

Actually, not yet. Only a few states now have laws but most states are now "considering" new laws.

I did see a small portion of the oil storm show (about the last half hour) so I am not very familiar with it. What I did see didn't seem to be "nonsense, garbage, and other derogatory adjectives" at all. Cat 4 and 5 hurricanes do happen, and a direct hit of one on the New Orleans corridor or Houston would have a significant effect on gas prices. Shoot, that happened last year and already this year (from a storm that wasn't even a Cat 1).

"if anyone ever breaks opec, prices will fall dramatically... until such time, the price of oil is artificially inflated..."

Haven't been following the oil market much lately? OPEC has little to do with the current pricing situation (most of OPEC is pumping at or near capacity). The rise of China and India's economy's is the reason for today's prices. China especially is competing extremely hard for all the contracts it can get. And they're getting most of what they want. They're outhustling the US. Theres even a rumor that they're trying to buy Unocal. Every analyst that I've seen recently suggests $3.00 per gallon by the end of the summer. $1.50 is probably a thing of the past.

Lets see. $3.00 per gallon + a Cat 4 or 5 has a direct hit on Houston wiping out one or two or three refineries + a high percentage of the oil derricks in the Gulf taken off line for months = $6.00 per gallon easy.

Have fun filling up that SUV cable.

 

[Texan]

I did see a small portion of the oil storm show (about the last half hour) so I am not very familiar with it. What I did see didn't seem to be "nonsense, garbage, and other derogatory adjectives" at all. Cat 4 and 5 hurricanes do happen, and a direct hit of one on the New Orleans corridor or Houston would have a significant effect on gas prices. Shoot, that happened last year and already this year (from a storm that wasn't even a Cat 1).

Once again you are wrong, there is another deep water port on the texas coast.

Haven't been following the oil market much lately? OPEC has little to do with the current pricing situation (most of OPEC is pumping at or near capacity). The rise of China and India's economy's is the reason for today's prices. China especially is competing extremely hard for all the contracts it can get. And they're getting most of what they want. They're outhustling the US. Theres even a rumor that they're trying to buy Unocal. Every analyst that I've seen recently suggests $3.00 per gallon by the end of the summer. $1.50 is probably a thing of the past.

Lets see. $3.00 per gallon + a Cat 4 or 5 has a direct hit on Houston wiping out one or two or three refineries + a high percentage of the oil derricks in the Gulf taken off line for months = $6.00 per gallon easy.

Have fun filling up that SUV cable.

A large precentage of rigs in the gulf are gas production rigs and not oil. It cost too much money to operate oil production rigs in the gulf due to all the red tape placed upon them by the tree huggers. And to think that we invaded Iraq for oil.

 

[Iceberg]

Once again you are wrong, there is another deep water port on the texas coast.

And if it gets hit by a hurricane, the same will be true.

A large precentage of rigs in the gulf are gas production rigs and not oil. It cost too much money to operate oil production rigs in the gulf due to all the red tape placed upon them by the tree huggers. And to think that we invaded Iraq for oil.

What red tape? The US is the most friendly nation to oil companies except for Saudi Arabia. And how do you think the "tree huggers" have any power? They're completely ignored by the Bush Administration, since the oil companies funded their campaign.

As for the Iraq oil bit, it's true. The war was over oil. That and for Poppy Bush's failure to "get Saddam." Shrub wanted to make his daddy happy.

 

[mindido]

Yes Tex,

I know about Galveston which, ironically for this discussion, was wiped out by a hurricane I believe in 1907. Over 50,000 killed as I remember.

The ports are, of course, necessary to the discussion, but the key is the refineries which are largely based around Houston and the New Orleans - Baton Rouge corridor.

I don't know what the percentage of oil to gas rigs there are in the gulf and, for this discussion it really doesn't matter. What I do know is that standard operating procedure on these rigs is that when a hurricane is bearing down on them, they are shut down for whatever period of time. Most rigs are designed to withstand a Cat 2 or 3 storm but none will withstand a Cat 4 or 5. I don't think there is any argument about that.

Red tape? I hope so. I don't make it to the coasts that often but when I do I find it very discouraging to see all the oil splattered around on the rocks. If the oil companies would have policed themselves better, the regulations would probably not have been necessary. They certainly deserve part of the blame.

And I too am glad you realize the truth of this statement, "And to think that we invaded Iraq for oil."