cableguy said:
it should be noted that i am not actually pushing anything on anyone, just providing an alternate viewpoint... i am not one of the rabid crazies you like to quote...
once again, as people seem to either not read or not retain, id isnt something that can be proven, absent whatever the creator is showing up and demonstrating it for us....
Those "rabid crazies" i quote are the leading members and theorists of Intelligent Design. Without them and their theories there is no articulated ID argument, nothing to which you can compare your own thoughts and arrived-at-independently beliefs.
Indeed ID isn't something one can prove- one cannot prove nor disprove the existence of a creator, so why then include it in science class? Science deals with things one can prove and disprove- shouldn't ID and Creationism stay where they belong, in religious education class? I am not encouraging atheism be taught in science class so why should religion be taught in science class?
The problem is they don't want to stay there; they want to control every aspect of one's life. Many evolutionist scientists such as Gould as well as all the theistic scientists who don't take a literal translation of scripture, argue for a separation of science and religion; as they believe they are primarily concerned with differing fields, but alas! Those of a fundie temperament are not content, they want complete control, for to them the piece of shitty authorship and editing that is the bible covers all aspects of one's life, including supposedly answering the questions of why we are how we are and everything else- a benevolent creator made us and everything that way, end of story.
Once again i don't care what people's personal beliefs are (providing they don't include my termination or some other crime against humanity :lol: ) The whole point of argument is: should something that doesn't meet the accepted criteria be placed along side something that does- its about context- religion has no place in science.
In my ideal world nobody would have religion, but that is neither here nor there, the point is we are talking about education, the education of facts not beliefs. Beliefs can be and are taught and strengthened through those institutions called churches, mosques, etc... they should not be part of a school science syllabus.
Cable, do you really think that all that the ID and Creationists want is their beliefs taught alongside secular interpretations of the world? I must have slept through the History classes where religions wished for alternative arguments to be allowed as well as their own (including and especially other religions to be taught), as monotheism states quite clearly in all of its versions: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, that it is the sole truth, and all others are lies and the work of the devil. In which case what is a 'good' monotheist to do with those teaching the 'devils lies'? Live and let live? i am yet to find such an example, until of course it was forced upon religious people to accept differing beliefs by secular societies; the case in which we have found ourselves still today, though this wouldn't last once religion gets a foothold in every field yet again. Still the poor fundie be very disappointed with the current state of affairs. Poor child! One only has to listen to those charming fundie preachers you lot stateside enjoy so much- you know the ones preaching hatred (or is it god’s love, I always get confused with such intricacies) towards homosexuals, blacks, women, heathens, commies, and liberals; basically anything they themselves are not.
I might wish to literally piss on yours and other's religions, but I refrain, so why is it ok for religion to piss on science? This is what it is doing with creationism and ID. When do non-believers get to have warning labels on 'holy' books found in religious institutions stating that 'this is only a theory, of which there are alternative theories' or have somebody stand up in church during sunday service and say 'of course this is only one amongst many beliefs represented, all have scope for examination including: that some guy called joshua never lived and therefore did nothing for anyone, thus putting your whole praise and adulation into the shitter'?
Until that day religion can stay out of science class. Because when religion thinks it can offer something constructive it usually fucks up everything in its path.
