Racism!?!?!?

[celebwatcher]

Depends on what you mean by racism. If you simply define it as the belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability , racism can and ,more or less, does exist in all societies, I'm sorry to say !

http://www.asiansinmedia.org/news/article.php/television/1404

( the offender -- who's probably stupid more than anything else -- has since been slammed by her countrymen which is a good sign )

Discrimination based on race --- and especially institutional racism --- is, however, more common among whites some of whom are quick to jump to the defence of those who make racist comments in the name of freedom of speech. On a thread on Brigitte Bardot ( a well-known supporter of the racist Front National ) on this forum, someone casually remarked that the fact that Bardot was arrested for her racist comments proved that freedom of speech doesn't exist in France ( I would think France was merely taking a tougher line with racists who were getting out of hand there )!

 

[Iceberg]

Re:

Discrimination based on race --- and especially institutional racism --- is, however, more common among whites some of whom are quick to jump to the defence of those who make racist comments in the name of freedom of speech.

This is incorrect. Visible minorities can get away with so much more than whites can by way of "hate speech" or racist remarks. Some, in fact, are praised by groups like the NAACP, CAIR, and others, while whites who make similar or identical comments are berated and, in effect, blacklisted by these groups.

One prime example is in the music industry. Rap and hip-hop is full of racist anti-white (and anti-police) lyrics and is marketed to the extreme by the music industry. However, "white pride" music (not necessarily white supremacist, but music which promotes European values) is prohibited to some degree.

This is a case of what Nat Hentoff, a Jewish-American scholar, deems to be "Free speech for me and not for thee" and goes against the First Amendment rights of Americans. (Yes, Hentoff seems to defend white supremacists' rights to free speech, despite the fact that many of them are very anti-semitic.)

Examples of racist rap and hip hop lyrics (some from very well-known "artists") can be found here:

http://home.att.net/~phosphor/introtogrammys.html

If by chance the link goes down, here is what it contains:

The GRAMMY Awards
While researching violent racism by black or Latino musicians, it was noticed that some artists who put out violent racism either were awarded GRAMMY's or were promoted by other artists who won GRAMMY's.
List of Black or Latin Artists Awarded GRAMMY's Who Put Out or Promoted Violent Racism
List of Some Artists Who Were Promoted by GRAMMY Award Winning Artists
Of the artists at issue, hundreds of millions of copies of their CD's have been sold over the last ten years. It should be kept in mind that the groups included below are a small sample of all the hip-hop groups which have put out kill-the-whites messages, and because there is way more out there than the researchers of this web site have time or resources to uncover, interested readers are encouraged to dig up violently racist lyrics and present them for public scrutiny. Here are some examples:

"Kill the white people; we gonna make them hurt; kill the white people; but buy my record first; ha, ha, ha";
"Kill d'White People"; Apache, Apache Ain't Shit, 1993, Tommy Boy Music, Time Warner, USA.

"Niggas in the church say: kill whitey all night long. . . . the white man is the devil. . . . the CRIPS and Bloods are soldiers I'm recruiting with no dispute; drive-by shooting on this white genetic mutant. . . . let's go and kill some rednecks. . . . Menace Clan ain't afraid. . . . I got the .380; the homies think I'm crazy because I shot a white baby; I said; I said; I said: kill whitey all night long. . . . a nigga dumping on your white ass; fuck this rap shit, nigga, I'm gonna blast. . . . I beat a white boy to the motherfucking ground";
"Kill Whitey"; Menace Clan, Da Hood, 1995, Rap-A-Lot Records, Noo Trybe Records, subsidiaries of what was called Thorn EMI and now is called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"Devils fear this brand new shit. . . . I bleed them next time I see them. . . . I pray on these devils. . . . look what it has come to; who you gonna run to when we get to mobbing. . . . filling his body up with lead, yah; cracker in my way; slitting, slit his throat; watch his body shake; watch his body shake; that's how we do it in the motherfucking [San Francisco] Bay. . . . sitting on the dock of the dirty with my AK";
"Heat--featuring Jet and Spice 1"; Paris, Unleashed, 1998, Unleashed Records, Whirling Records.

"These devils make me sick; I love to fill them full of holes; kill them all in the daytime, broad motherfucking daylight; 12 o'clock, grab the Glock; why wait for night";
"Sweatin Bullets"; Brand Nubian, Everything Is Everything, 1994, Elektra Entertainment, Warner Communications, Time Warner, USA.

"A fight, a fight, a nigger and a white, if the nigger don't win then we all jump in. . . . smoking all [of] America's white boys";
"A Fight"; Apache, Apache Ain't Shit, 1993, Tommy Boy Music, Time Warner, USA.

"I kill a devil right now. . . . I say kill whitey all nightey long. . . . I stabbed a fucking Jew with a steeple. . . . I would kill a cracker for nothing, just for the fuck of it. . . . Menace Clan kill a cracker; jack 'em even quicker. . . . catch that devil slipping; blow his fucking brains out";
"Fuck a Record Deal"; Menace Clan, Da Hood, 1995, Rap-A-Lot Records, Noo Trybe Records, subsidiaries of Thorn EMI; called The EMI Group since 1997, United Kingdom.

"Now I'm black but black people trip [become upset] 'cause white people like me; white people like me but don't like them. . . . I don't hate whites, I just gotta death wish for motherfuckers that ain't right";
"Race War"; Ice-T, Home Invasion, 1993, Priority Records, Thorn EMI; now called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"To all my Universal Soldier's: stay at attention while I strategize an invasion; the mission be assassination, snipers hitting Caucasians with semi-automatic shots heard around the world; my plot is to control the globe and hold the world hostage. . . . see, I got a war plan more deadlier than Hitler. . . . lyrical specialist, underworld terrorist. . . . keep the unity thick like mud. . . . I pulling out gats [handguns], launching deadly attacks";
"Blood for Blood"; Killarmy, Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, 1997, Wu-Tang Records, Priority Records, The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"Lead to the head of you devils";
"Lick Dem Muthaphuckas--Remix"; Brand Nubian, Everything Is Everything, 1994, Elektra Entertainment, Warner Communications, Time Warner, USA.

"This will all be over in '99, so, niggas, give devils the crime; gonna be more devils dying";
"No Surrender"; Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, Creepin on ah Come Up, 1994, Ruthless Records, Epic Records, Sony Music Entertainment, Sony, Japan.

"Won't be satisfied until the devils--I see them all dead. . . . my brother is sending me more guns from down South. . . . pale face. . . . it's all about brothers rising up, wising up, sizing up our situation. . . . you be fucking with my turf when you be fucking with my race; now face your maker and take your last breadth; the time is half-past death. . . . it's the Armageddon. . . . go into the garage; find that old camouflage. . . . cracker-shooting nightly";
"What the Fuck"; Brand Nubian, Everything Is Everything, 1994, Elektra Entertainment, Warner Communications, Time Warner, USA.

".44 ways to get paid. . . . I'm through with talking to these devils; now I'm ready to blast";
"44 Wayz--featuring Mystic"; Paris, Unleashed, 1998, Unleashed Records, Whirling Records.

"Like my niggas from South Central Los Angeles they found that they couldn't handle us; Bloods, CRIPS, on the same squad, with the Essays [Latino gangbangers] up, and nigga, it's time to rob and mob and break the white man off something lovely";
"The Day the Niggaz Took Over"; Dr Dre, The Chronic, 1993, Interscope Records, under Time Warner in 1993.

"Bust a Glock; devils get shot. . . . when God give the word me herd like the buffalo through the neighborhood; watch me blast. . . . I'm killing more crackers than Bosnia-Herzegovina, each and everyday. . . . don't bust until you see the whites of his eyes, the whites of his skin. . . . Louis Farrakhan . . . Bloods and CRIPS, and little old me, and we all getting ready for the enemy";
"Enemy"; Ice Cube, Lethal Injection, 1993, Priority Records, Thorn EMI; now called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"Devil, to gangbanging there's a positive side and the positive side is this--sooner than later the brothers will come to Islam, and they will be the soldiers for the war; what war, you ask; Armageddon; ha, ha, ha, ha, ha";
"Armageddon"; RBX, The RBX Files, 1995, Premeditated Records, Warner Brother Records, Time Warner, USA.

"Subtract the devils that get smoked. . . . we're people, black people; steal your mind back, don't die in their wilderness. . . . let's point our heaters [handguns] the other way";
"Dial 7"; Digable Planets, Blowout Comb, 1994, Pendulum Records, Thorn EMI; now called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"Get them devil-made guns and leave them demons bleeding; give them back whips, and just feed them bullets";
"Wicked Ways"; Sunz of Man, One Million Strong: The Album, 1995, Mergela Records, Solar/Hines Co., Prolific Records.

"It's time to send the devil to the essence. . . . this is a must because there ain't no reform or trust; you got a Glock and you see a devil, bust. . . . they'll be calling us the trigger men, the nappy-knotty red-beard devil-assassin; Lord make a law; at midnight I'll be bashing. . . . field niggas [are] locked in until 2005";
"Field N#gguhz in a Huddle"; Professor Griff, Blood of the Prophet; 1998, Lethal Records, Mercury Records, PolyGram, Philips' Electronics NV, Netherlands. PolyGram merged with Universal Music Group in 1998, the parent being The Seagram Company of Canada.

"He prays on old white ladies [who] drive the Mercedes with the windows cracked. . . . you should've heard the bitch screaming. . . . sticking guns in crackers' mouths. . . . the cops can't stop it. . . . remember 4-29-92, come on; Florence and Normandy coming to a corner near you, cracker; we've been through your area, mass hysteria; led by your motherfucking Menace Clan";
"Mad Nigga"; Menace Clan, Da Hood, 1995, Rap-A-Lot Records, Noo Trybe Records, Time Warner, USA.

"The black man is god. . . . buy a Tec [and] let loose in the Vatican. . . . I love the black faces; so put your Bible in the attic";
"Ain't No Mystery"; Brand Nubian, In God We Trust, 1992, Elektra Entertainment, Warner Communications, Time Warner, USA.

"Rhymes is rugged like burnt buildings in Harlem; the Ol Dirty Bastard. . . . I'm also militant. . . . snatching devils up by the hair, then cut his head off";
"Cuttin Headz"; Ol Dirty Bastard, Return of the 36 Chambers: the Dirty Version; 1995, Elektra Entertainment, Time Warner, USA.

"Listen to this black visionary, bringing war like a revolutionary. . . . go on a killing spree, putting devils out their misery; hearing screams, sounds of agony; my hostility takes over me. . . . camouflaged ninjas avenging";
"Under Seige"; Killarmy, Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, 1997, Wu-Tang Records, Priority Records, The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"Swing by on the pale guy. . . . break him in the neck. . . . the guerrilla with the poison tip. . . . shaking pinky up on a dull-ass ice-pick . . . this is Lench Mob. . . . devil, what you want to do; when you see the boot, knew your head is hoohoo ";
"King of the Jungle"; Da Lench Mob, Planet of da Apes, 1994, Priority Records, Thorn EMI; now called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"Dropping verses, casting curses, throwing these hexes on the devils. . . . respect to Farrakhan, but I'm the jungle-don, the new guerrilla, top-ranked honky killer. . . . what do blacks do; they just keep on blowing devils away. . . . evil fucking cracker. . . . I'm tightening up the laces to my steel-toed boots, so I can walk, stomp; we stomp this devil down in the park";
"Planet of da Apes"; Da Lench Mob, Planet of da Apes, 1994, Priority Records, Thorn EMI; now called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"We're having thoughts of overthrowing the government. . . . the brothers and sisters threw their fists in the air. . . . it's open season on crackers, you know; the morgue will be full of Caucasian John Doe's. . . . I make the Riot shit look like a fairy tale. . . . oh my god, Allah, have mercy; I'm killing them devils because they're not worthy to walk the earth with the original black man; they must be forgetting; it's time for Armageddon, and I won't rest until they're all dead";
"Goin Bananas"; Da Lench Mob, Planet of da Apes, 1994, Priority Records, Thorn EMI; now called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"The crackers ain't shit; chase them out of the jungle; now raise up off the planet. . . . we get the 12 gauge; shot to the chest. . . . we hitting devils up. . . . Da Lench Mob, environmental terrorist. . . . I gripped the Glock and had to knock his head from his shoulders. . . . I got the .30[6] on the rooftop; pop; pop; so many devils die. . . . make sure I kill them. . . . lynch a thousand a week if it's necessary";
"Environmental Terrorist"; Da Lench Mob, Planet of da Apes, 1994, Priority Records, Thorn EMI; now called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"Like an armed struggle. . . . I come with the New Wu Order. . . . waging war on the devils' community. . . . whipped cardinals and one Pope";
"Universal Soldiers"; Killarmy, Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, 1997, Wu-Tang Records, Priority Records, The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"Swinging out of the trees, is the blood-spilling, devil-killing, nappy-headed g.'s. . . . blacks and Mexicans must take a stand. . . . I'm down with Chico, and not with the man";
"Set the Shit Straight"; Da Lench Mob, Planet of da Apes, 1994, Priority Records, Thorn EMI; now called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"Fuck them laws, because the Mob is coming raw; nigga, is you down because it's the Final Call. . . . grab your gat; know the three will start busting; I'm trying to take them down. . . . the war of wars with no fucking scores. . . . April 29 was a chance to realize . . . the g.'s are out to kill. . . . we got crackers to kill; sending them back in on a ship to Europe. . . . they deserve it. . . . a nation-wide riot across America. . . . this is the Final Call on black man and black woman, rich and poor; rise up";
"Final Call"; Da Lench Mob, Planet of da Apes, 1994, Priority Records, Thorn EMI; now called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"I come with the wicked style. . . . I got everybody jumping to the voodoo. . . . I got a gat and I'm looking out the window like Malcolm. . . . April 29 was power to the people, and we just might see a sequel";
"Wicked"; Ice Cube, The Predator, 1992, Priority Records, Thorn EMI; now called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"Deal with the devil with my motherfucking steel [handgun]. . . . white man is something I tried to study, but I got my hands bloody, yeah. . . . I met Farrakhan and had dinner";
"When Will They Shoot"; Ice Cube, The Predator, 1992, Priority Records, Thorn EMI; now called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"Actual fact you need to be black. . . . everyday I fight a devil. . . . I grab a shovel to bury a devil. . . . the battle with the beast, Mr. 666. . . . my mind rolled to a 7th level; grab my bazooka and nuke a devil. . . . with black, I build; for black, I kill";
"Fightin the Devil"; RBX, The RBX Files, 1995, Premeditated Records, Warner Brother Records, Time Warner, USA.

"I pledge allegiance to only the black. . . . black, you had best prepare for the coming of war. . . . look at you devil; now you're sweating; I'm telling you: you can't run from the hand of Armageddon. . . . he eats his pig-steak rare so he can taste the blood";
"No Time"; RBX, The RBX Files, 1995, Premeditated Records, Warner Brother Records, Time Warner, USA.

"Killing devils [and] scatter they ashes over the sea of Mediterranean. . . . open your eyes to the revolution. . . . unite with the black coalition";
"Wake Up"; Killarmy, Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, 1997, Wu-Tang Records, Priority Records, The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"My own kind blind, brain-trained on the devil-level. . . . chasing down loot, Dole or Newt, who do you shoot. . . . rough stuff to the babies, spread like rabies";
"Niggativity . . . Do I Dare Disturb the Universe"; Chuck D, Autobiography of MistaChuck, 1996, Mercury Records, PolyGram, Philips' Electronics NV, Netherlands. PolyGram merged within Universal Music Group in 1998, the parent being The Seagram Company, Canada.

"Buck the devil; boom. . . . shoot you with my .22; I got plenty of crew; I take out white boys. . . . we got big toys with the one-mile scope, taking whitey's throat";
"Buck tha Devil"; Da Lench Mob, Guerrillas in tha Mist, 1992, Eastwest Records America, Elektra, Atlantic, Time Warner, USA.

"Little devils don't go to heaven. . . . the AK forty . . . hold a fifty clip, and I'll shoot until it's empty. . . . I'm killing only seven million civilians. . . . one dead devil";
"Freedom Got an AK"; Da Lench Mob, Guerrillas in tha Mist, 1992, Eastwest Records America, Elektra, Atlantic, Time Warner, USA.

"Grab your deep-ass crews. . . . we gotta make them ends, even if it means Jack and friends. . . . now you're doomed, hollow-points to the dome; once again it's on. . . . out comes my .22. . . . I'm the cut-throat; now I got to cut you . . . '94 is the season for lynching; from out of the dark is the South Central g., ready-hand steady on a bloody machete. . . . a devil is on my shoulder; should I kill it; hell yah. . . . I slice Jack. . . . took an axe, and gave that bitch, Jill, forty wacks. . . . with my hip hop . . . it don't stop, until heads roll off the cutting block";
"Cut Throats"; Da Lench Mob, Planet of da Apes, 1994, Priority Records, Thorn EMI; now called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"A young fugitive soldier. . . . soon to make the devil kneel";
"Not Promised Tomorrow"; Sunz of Man, Sunz of Man: The Last Shall Be First, 1998, Threat Records, Wu-Tang Records, Red Ant Entertainment, BMG Distribution, BMG Entertainment, Bertelsmann AG of Germany.

"Camouflaged for the mission. . . . become Bonnie and Clyde; carry .45's in these last days. . . . an original black man with a plan to run these devils off our motherfucking land. . . . the Sunz of Man war track. . . . kept gun in hand, stalking the land";
"Can I See You"; Sunz of Man, Sunz of Man: The Last Shall Be First, 1998, Threat Records, Wu-Tang Records, Red Ant Entertainment, BMG Distribution, BMG Entertainment, Bertelsmann, Germany.

"I may die in the scuffle but I'm taking forty devils";
"The City"; Wu-Tang Clan, Wu-Tang Forever, 1997, Loud Records, Wu-Tang Productions, RCA Records, BMG Distribution, BMG Entertainment, Bertelsmann, Germany.

"Roping up the devils, have them hanging from my testicles";
"Nowhere To Run"; Gravediggaz, 6 Feet Deep, 1997 reissue of a 1994 album, Gee Street Records, BMG Distribution, BMG Entertainment, Bertelsmann AG, Germany.

"Devils get baked. . . . devils are all defeated. . . . breaking devils down";
"Blood Brothers"; Gravediggaz, 6 Feet Deep, 1997 reissue of a 1994 album, Gee Street Records, BMG Distribution, BMG Entertainment, Bertelsmann AG, Germany.

"I love black women and I hate fucking crackers. . . . I destroyed a whole city like Sodom and Gomorrah or Babylon. . . . devils choke from the gunsmoke. . . . I'm swelling devils' melons. . . . send your asses to Kings County; solo pro-morgue supplier";
"Graveyard Chamber"; Gravediggaz, 6 Feet Deep, 1997 reissue of a 1994 album, Gee Street Records, BMG Distribution, BMG Entertainment, Bertelsmann AG, Germany.

"I'm hanging devils' heads on a evergreen bush";
"Dangerous Mindz"; Gravediggaz, The Pick The Sickle and The Shovel, 1997, Gee Street Records, BMG Distribution, BMG Entertainment, Bertelsmann, Germany.

"Cloud, which means to overshadow the other man, mess up his game plan. . . . South Park Black Panther coming at last. . . . I need more brothers to roll over the government. . . . I got the nine [millimeter pistol], the mind, and the time to unwind new-school pro-black dope [great] rhymes. . . . there's 10,000 of us; how you gonna stop this bum-rush, fool. . . . talk is cheap; you best believe that, black; actions speak louder than words, and that's a fact";
"Cloud on Suckas"; The Terrorists, Terror Strikes: Always Bizness Never Personal, 1991, Rap-A-Lot Records, Priority Records, Thorn EMI, United Kingdom. Rap-A-Lot Records was owned by Virgin Records for about four years before 1999, when it joined back with Priority. Thorn EMI changed its name in 1998 to EMI Group.

"I'm black with a bat, swinging at the head of a honky. . . . The Terrorists about to murder your ass";
"Blow Dem Hoes Up"; The Terrorists, Terror Strikes: Always Bizness Never Personal, 1991, Rap-A-Lot Records, Priority Records, Thorn EMI, United Kingdom.

"Squeeze your nostrils tight and gag your mouth with a Bud Light; peace to all the blacks. . . . The Terrorists kicking political rough shit and we won't quit until the other man's throat slit from one ear to the other";
"Bomb Threat"; The Terrorists, Terror Strikes: Always Bizness Never Personal, 1991, Rap-A-Lot Records, Priority Records, Thorn EMI, United Kingdom.

"A fight, a nigger and a white, if the nigger don't win then we all jump in";
"Ghetto Mentalitee"; Onyx, All We Got Iz Us, 1995, Rush Associated Labels Recordings, PolyGram Group Distribution, Philips' Elecronics, Netherlands.

"Waiting for the crackers; smuggle; his mug is in the gutters. . . . so we need your participation in the Caucasian assassination; time is wasting. . . . so who is in association with the nigger retaliation; it needs your total cooperation. . . . a confrontation will be fought by the younger generation; because we got determination; all we need is organization";
"Purse Snatchers"; Onyx, All We Got Iz Us, 1995, Rush Associated Labels Recordings, PolyGram Group Distribution, Philips' Elecronics, Netherlands.

"The real black army is in jail. . . . come on my fellow prisoners, time to go to war. . . . what we need to do is point the guns in the right direction, aha. . . . me and my piece came to claim the brown man's cut. . . . infiltrate until it burns down. . . . what we need to be talking about is what we gonna do to them; I'll get revenge if it's the last thing I do. . . . they got us brainwashed to be the minority, but when we kill them off we gonna be the majority. . . . if the whites speak up, then I'll lead my people, because two wrongs don't make it right but it damn sure make us equal; I'm inciting riots, so let's start the looting. . . . in this revolution I loathe my enemy";
"2 Wrongs"; Onyx, All We Got Iz Us, 1995, Rush Associated Labels Recordings, PolyGram Group Distribution, Philips' Elecronics, Netherlands.

Posted at http://home.att.net/~phosphor on June 30, 1999.

Updates: 8-10-99: The Terrorists, 1991 album; 8-10-99: Onyx, 1995 album; 8-10-99: Gravediggaz, 1994 album.

 

[celebwatcher]

Originally posted by Iceberg :

"This is incorrect. Visible minorities can get away with so much more than whites can by way of "hate speech" or racist remarks .... while whites who make similar or identical comments are berated and, in effect, blacklisted by these groups"

Granted, hip-hop lyrics are often prejudiced against whites. But all that started after centuries of discrimination against American blacks by whites. Visit any thread on racism on any discussion forum and you'll find at least a dozen guys slamming political correctness !

 

[upnorth17]

Granted, hip-hop lyrics are often prejudiced against whites. But all that started after centuries of discrimination against American blacks by whites. Visit any thread on racism on any discussion forum and you'll find at least a dozen guys slamming political correctness !

And so people who don't think that "political correctness" is necessarily a good thing for relationships in our society, like me, are racist?

Labels are labels, and are never good, which is why I disdain most political correctness. And it has been taken so much further than how we refer to people of different races, religions, social stadnding, sexual orientation, etc. We have found ourselves in a place where we are so worried about offending other people that we repress our own personal expression of our culture, faith, etc.

 

[Iceberg]

Re:

Granted, hip-hop lyrics are often prejudiced against whites. But all that started after centuries of discrimination against American blacks by whites.

That is no excuse for racism by blacks. There can be no excuse for racist behaviour by ANYBODY!

Also, these rap and hip-hop "artists" never experienced the racism of slave-owning whites. These "artists" are making millions of dollars, a great deal of which come from WHITE youth who seem to be so wayward you can tell by the fact that their pants aren't on normally and that they walk funny!

I'll remind you that free blacks owned slaves as well in the US, but you never hear about it because it is so politically incorrect and "insensitive". Also, one of the only groups of people who enslave thousands of people today are BLACKS in AFRICA! (Others being Arabs and Muslims.) Again, does anyone say anything about that at meetings like the WCAR (World Conference Against Racism) in Durban? NO! It's because it is politically incorrect and "insensitive".

Celebwatcher, the excuse you made for racist slurs and, in effect, hate speech by these black "artists" is just yet another example of what is destroying society today, the "tolerance of intolerance".

 

[celebwatcher]

Originally posted by upnorth17

And so people who don't think that "political correctness" is necessarily a good thing for relationships in our society, like me, are racist?

Labels are labels, and are never good, which is why I disdain most political correctness. And it has been taken so much further than how we refer to people of different races, religions, social stadnding, sexual orientation, etc. We have found ourselves in a place where we are so worried about offending other people that we repress our own personal expression of our culture, faith, etc.

I NEVER said anyone who's non-PC is a racist by definition ! They, however, are more likely to use and abuse "labels" ! Being PC is being polite and discreet.

Too much political correctness can be stifling but, without it, a lot of people would still be using the N-word, for example, at work. Trust me !

No-one needs to be afraid to share one's thoughts about one's religion or culture with others ---- as long as he takes care not to insult other faiths or communities.

 

[celebwatcher]

Originally posted by Iceberg :

That is no excuse for racism by blacks. There can be no excuse for racist behaviour by ANYBODY!

Sure, and I didn't make any ! Let's face it, however, that it was mainly the Caucasians who showed the way : Native Americans, Australian aborigines, Asians ( except Arabs ) or Africans didn't colonize Europe or enslave whites ! Long before Black Panthers were born, the KKK was merrily lynching the blacks in the Deep South.
In other words, white haven't suffered a fraction of what the non-whites did in the hands of the whites. When they do --- as in present-day Zimbabwe --- they make news !

Originally posted by :
I'll remind you that free blacks owned slaves as well in the US, but you never hear about it because it is so politically incorrect and "insensitive". Also, one of the only groups of people who enslave thousands of people today are BLACKS in AFRICA! (Others being Arabs and Muslims.)

Thanks for reminding me : I simply love collecting historical curiosities ;-)

Black slave-owners were a RARITY . And, yes, there were black slave-traders and slave-drivers too but it was the Arabs and the Caucasians who controlled slave-trade.

 

[Iceberg]

Re:

Sure, and I didn't make any ! Let's face it, however, that it was mainly the Caucasians who showed the way : Native Americans, Australian aborigines, Asians ( except Arabs ) or Africans didn't colonize Europe or enslave whites ! Long before Black Panthers were born, the KKK was merrily lynching the blacks in the Deep South.
In other words, white haven't suffered a fraction of what the non-whites did in the hands of the whites. When they do --- as in present-day Zimbabwe --- they make news !

Now, here's a group which has suffered (and perhaps the most of any group) throughout the 20th Century: the Jewish people.

Now, what have they done over the last few decades in response to their mistreatment and abuse? Certainly not ghettoise themselves, join gangs, target and kill or attack random "aryan" or Islamic-looking people, engage in a promiscuous lifestyle of pimps and hoes, or create rap or hip-hop "music" with some of the most vile lyrics on this planet! The Jews have created for themselves a very prosperous livelihood, a vibrant culture of music and dance, and are typically very respectful of others. (I am not Jewish, so don't think of me as biased.) The Jews seem to realise that two wrongs don't make a right. Many blacks seem not to have recognised this.

Also, I hear very little criticism from those of the "left" of the political spectrum regarding Mugabe's abuses and racist policies in Zimbabwe as well as Thabo Mbeki's reverse-Apartheid engagements in South Africa. It seems as if they are in favour of performing a wrong if it "nullifies" a past wrong. (Now, that is complete horseshit-for-brains thinking!)

I thought the "left" was all about that thing called "social justice". It turns out that their idea of "social justice" only applies to visible minorities.

ETA, but a bit off topic: If some of you are wondering if anything has come over me, no I haven't become a raging Republican-like member of society. I've just had enough of the bullshit that comes out of the mouths (or asses) of "social democrats". I'm still moderate, still on the left environmentally (I sure as heck want to see a solution to global warming as immediately as possible) and slightly on the left economically (spread a bit of the wealth around so those of the hardworking poor can enjoy life to some degree), but I'm just sick of the politically correct crap that comes out of the social-left advocates and activists.

 

[celebwatcher]

Originally posted by iceberg :

"That is no excuse for racism by blacks. There can be no excuse for racist behaviour by ANYBODY!"

Sure, and I'm not making any! I began my first posting on the thead by admitting that racial prejudice exists in all societies.

"Also, these rap and hip-hop "artists" never experienced the racism of slave-owning whites."

Maybe they didn't but the grandparents of some of them ( if not their parents ) who lived in the Deep South almost certainly did ! Some big city rappers were raised in ghettoes which begs the question of who drove their people there ! It's like the current generation of Jews and the Holocaust.

"I'll remind you that free blacks owned slaves as well in the US, but you never hear about it because it is so politically incorrect and "insensitive".

Thanks for the reminder --- I simply love collecting historical trivia ;-)

Slave-owning blacks were a rarity ( like female rapists ! ), that's why we don't hear about them. Yes, and there used to be black slave-traders and slave-drivers as well but the trafficking in human lives was controlled by whites and Arabs.

"Also, one of the only groups of people who enslave thousands of people today are BLACKS in AFRICA! (Others being Arabs and Muslims.) Again, does anyone say anything about that at meetings like the WCAR (World Conference Against Racism) in Durban? NO! It's because it is politically incorrect and "insensitive"."

If "thousands" are still being bought and sold as slaves in Africa, I'm sure that would been reported and criticized in the world press.

I'm NOT trying to defend gangsta rappers or hiphop songwriters who spread anti-white messages: report them to appropriate authorities by all means.

But, apart from fuelling a few inner-city knifings/ shootings, have they really impacted on the society big time like the systematic racism practised by many Caucasians for centuries have done, let alone "destroy" it ? Let's face it, have whites had to endure a fraction of the sufferings they inflicted on Native Americans, Australian aborigines, Africans and South Asians ? In fact, if it weren't for some liberal, conscientious and progressive whites, there might have still been colour bar in the American south !

 

[celebwatcher]

Originally posted by iceberg :

"Now, here's a group which has suffered (and perhaps the most of any group) throughout the 20th Century: the Jewish people.

Now, what have they done over the last few decades in response to their mistreatment and abuse? Certainly not ghettoise themselves, join gangs, target and kill or attack random "aryan" or Islamic-looking people, engage in a promiscuous lifestyle of pimps and hoes, or create rap or hip-hop "music" with some of the most vile lyrics on this planet! The Jews have created for themselves a very prosperous livelihood, a vibrant culture of music and dance, and are typically very respectful of others. (I am not Jewish, so don't think of me as biased.) The Jews seem to realise that two wrongs don't make a right. Many blacks seem not to have recognised this."

With all respect to Jews, they mainly -- and hugely -- suffered in the hands of a bunch of WHITE racists who called themselves Nazis and , to some extent, Commies. After WW2, they NEVER faced any significant discrimination in the West.


Sure, they are a gifted people but after 1948 they were given plenty of opportunities to prosper in the develeped world unlike the blacks who still had to face racial segregation in the Deep South and Apartheid laws in South Africa ( I'm not a Muslim , so don't think I'm biased ! ). They also have a heck of lobbying power in the Congress like influential businessmen always do.


As for their "respect" for other cultures, the right-wingers among the don't seem to mind killing hundreds of innocent Lebanese to nail a few Hizbollah ! Of course, liberal Jews who don't take their religion too seriously are different.

 

[Red Horse]

Here's a thought...back then (using Mr. Peabody's Wayback machine), in the early days of sailing, approximately 1500 to 1700 A.D., the Europeans (Caucasian, you may say, but that's only northern European...the Spanish, Portuguese, southern French aren't what is called "white" now, they'd be called "swarthy" at that time, but that's cutting hairs...after all, we're all white when it comes to the "White Man's Burden") were after wealth...meaning gold, obviously, but also the lands that had it and the power to keep it. That's a given.
However, tell me the difference between then and those now who believe they have the right to compensation from people today who have NO CONNECTION whatsoever to those days...are they not just after money?
Just a thought.

 

[celebwatcher]

Originally posted by Iceberg :

... join gangs, target and kill or attack random "aryan" or Islamic-looking people, engage in a promiscuous lifestyle of pimps and hoes, or create rap or hip-hop "music" with some of the most vile lyrics on this planet!

Good Heavens !

Blacks Americans have made huge contributions to the twin worlds of entertainment and sports --- but pimping and prostitution are all you can think of ? Heck, they gave the US the first music it could call its OWN and, no, it's not hiphop / rap ( fond as I am of C&W and folk, I honestly don't think they could have popularized American culture worldwide on their own ) !

Admittedly, they turned to crime in huge numbers --- what else did you expect when most conservative whites tried their best to keep them out of their neighbourhods, their schools, their universities, their offices and their lives for decades ? A few universities in the Deep South still ban interracial dating ( Dubya gave a talk at one of these ! ).

When white Italian and Jewish East European ( Mayer Lansky, Bugsy Siegel ) immigrants --- who faced far less discrimination than the blacks --- could found Murder Inc and control huge chunks of organized crime across the land, is it any wonder that the underworld attracted some African-Americans (who weren't even in the US by their choice ) ? The lure of easy money combined with an opportunity to assert themselves was probably too much for the idiots among them.

Talking about promiscuity, is there any evidence to suggest blacks are more promiscuous than whites with similar social backgrounds ?

Most "Islamic-looking" people were assaulted by white skinheads, not blacks following 9/11 and 7/7 !

Also, I hear very little criticism from those of the "left" of the political spectrum regarding Mugabe's abuses and racist policies in Zimbabwe as well as Thabo Mbeki's reverse-Apartheid engagements in South Africa. It seems as if they are in favour of performing a wrong if it "nullifies" a past wrong.

They've probably saved them for the right-wingers who absolutley love slamming Third World politicians who're in their views " not enough pro-West " !

Mugabe is a tyrant, but his biggest crimes are suppression of the opposition and corruption, not racism; most of the British landowners there had actively supported Ian Smith !

 

[celebwatcher]

Originally posted by Red Horse :

However, tell me the difference between then and those now who believe they have the right to compensation from people today who have NO CONNECTION whatsoever to those days...are they not just after money?

Yeah, maybe ... but claiming that they have "no connection whatsoever to those days" is rubbish. It's like telling a young Jew the Holocaust shouldn't concern him because he was born a long time after it happened !

It's debatable if "The right to compensation" exists ---- but that issue was raised because countries which have profited from colonialism and/or slave labour in the past were not being serious about redemption. Has any European nation formally apologized to its former colonies for occupying them, let alone offer compensation ?


And, no, there can be no comparison between oppressing and exploiting a people and demanding "compensation" for it ( BTW, the British demanded to be compensated for the sufferings inflicted on BritishPOWs by the Japanese in the Eastern Theatre ). The slave-owners and colonial masters of yersterday prospered --- they were not tried for crimes against humanity.

 

[Red Horse]

Tobacco was unknown in Europe (and most of the rest of the world, for that matter) until the Indians (Native Americans, if you prefer) taught the Europeans to smoke. Cigarettes and other tobacco products have killed many more people than all wars combined.

I'm a smoker (wish I wasn't, it's an awful habit, but that's my own demon). Does that mean I have the right to condemn Indians for my faults?

My point is that political correctness has gotten way out of hand...the "sins of our fathers" aren't necessarily ours.

 

[Iceberg]

My point is that political correctness has gotten way out of hand...the "sins of our fathers" aren't necessarily ours.

Amen to that! We have/had nothing to do with these "sins" committed.

Celebwatcher, in response to this:

The slave-owners and colonial masters of yersterday prospered --- they were not tried for crimes against humanity.

The international rule of law was not established until well after the colonial era. Therefore, no "crimes against humanity" charges can be levelled. As well, those who committed these "crimes" are long dead.

Also, whoever thought that colonialism constituted a "crime against humanity" is misguided.

Examples of colonised African nations include Egypt, Morocco, and South Africa. These colonised nations are in a much better position today, in part because of colonialism. European "colonisers" brought technology, better medicine, and skills uncolonised African nations would not have today. Life spans in colonised nations tend to be longer than those in the few nations uncolonised by Europeans.

 

[celebwatcher]

Originally posted by Red Horse

Tobacco was unknown in Europe (and most of the rest of the world, for that matter) until the Indians (Native Americans, if you prefer) taught the Europeans to smoke. Cigarettes and other tobacco products have killed many more people than all wars combined.

I'm a smoker (wish I wasn't, it's an awful habit, but that's my own demon). Does that mean I have the right to condemn Indians for my faults?

Er... did Native Americans invade Europe and force its inhabitants to smoke ? Why should then they take the blame for bad habits whites picked up from them ?

Spanish conquistadors, on the other hand , overran vast chunks of what's now Latin America and infected the locals with syphilis and smallpox.

You're sidestepping a fundamental issue : Europeans invaded foreign lands and looted them for centuries --- they didn't simply sail there for trade !

My point is that political correctness has gotten way out of hand...the "sins of our fathers" aren't necessarily ours.

Political correctness wouldn't have been necessary if people didn't have racial superiority !

The sins of your fathers aren't yours providing you atone for them. Sadly, the liberal intelligentsia --- the best people who ever came out the West --- who did that is a 'lost tribe' these days : too many Caucasians are trying to trivialize the issue or deny that colonialists ever existed ! Young Germans shouldn't feel guilty about the Holocaust themselves but it's something they need to regard as evil.

 

[upnorth17]

Sadly, the liberal intelligentsia --- the best people who ever came out the West --- who did that is a 'lost tribe' these days : too many Caucasians are trying to trivialize the issue or deny that colonialists ever existed ! Young Germans shouldn't feel guilty about the Holocaust themselves but it's something they need to regard as evil.

Liberal intelligentisa! Now there's an oxymoron! :angelwing

 

[celebwatcher]

Originally posted by upnorth17

Liberal intelligentisa! Now there's an oxymoron!

No it ain't !

Actually they're way better than non-PC morons, some of whom are skinheads with (blonde) wigs on !

 

[upnorth17]

No it ain't !

And they're way better than non-PC morons, most of whom are cultural chauvinists in disguise !

First of all, it was a joke. Second of all, I think you're taking this WAY too seriously for this forum. Where are the naked broads! Wait, that wasn't PC!

 

[Iceberg]

Re:

Liberal intelligentisa! Now there's an oxymoron!

No it ain't !

Actually they're way better than non-PC morons, some of whom are skinheads with (blonde) wigs on !

Actually, no. These members of the so-called "liberal intelligentsia" are far from liberal and also far from intelligent. See the following article:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008763

Also, it seems as these PC advocates are racist and bigoted in their own way. They never hesitate to be racist towards whites and Jews, but call even the most minor comment, if directed towards a black, Muslim, or other visible minority, words such as "vile" and "hateful".