Gas Prices

[Iceberg]

The President and each State Governor needs to temporarily wave all associated taxes/gallon of fuel.

The Georgia governor did that and it dropped the price only by about $0.20/gallon.

What doing that does, really, is reduce the amount of money that can go into the government's budget, which reduces the amount of money that can go into roads, schools, environmental protection, health care, public transit, and other necessary projects. The prices are just going to keep climbing and the loss of tax money will push governments into deeper debt and will push the people into deeper poverty.

What I think is that gasoline should be taxed to the hilt and the money taken from this should be put into mass transit systems which will be the primary way that people travel within cities. This will push most of the single-occupant vehicles off the streets during rush hour and will reduce greatly the incidents of road rage (which have been on a sharp upswing over the past decade or two).

Of course, farmers should be given a break on this, since their occupation is vitally important for the survival of our species. However, businesspeople, accountants, or lawyers (or other, less vitally essential occupations) should not get any sort of tax break for business expenses (and especially not for gas-guzzlers, which is one of the primary reasons why gas prices are on the rise in North America).

 

[mindido]

CMan,

Although many people here are reporting local prices at particular times, I think there are several other reasons for this thread.

First, things have changed considerably since you were in Florida. Currently, gas there is now between $5 to $6 per gallon, on par with the rest of the world. And its much the same throughout the southeast US and parts of the west coast. But the reasons for these prices are much different. In Europe and Canada, the gov'ts. made a decision years ago to tax the heck out of gas to encourage conservation. Here in the States we do, of course, pay gasoline taxes but combined federal, state and local taxes on a single gallon average about $.50. So here, instead of paying the gov't., we're being gouged by OPEC and the oil companies.

My primary objective here is to wake people around here up to the fact that these people are not our friends and should be treated like the robber barons that they are. Also, and more importantly, it is imperative that people recognize that, if Matthew Simmons is right (and I'm seeing more analysts around the world that believe he is) we have reached peak production and are now on the downslope of oil stocks.

I don't know if people know what that means so I'll try and explain it. Oil is a finite resource. There is only a certain amount of it in the ground and we are not making any more of it (at least in a timeframe that is useful to us). We have been using it now for over a hundred years and in the last 30 years we've been guzzling it like its an infinite resourse. Mr. Simmons (and now several others) have done detailed analyses of the oil fields, production capabilities and methods, and has come to the conclusion that the heyday of oil is over. What does that mean? Think of a single parabolic curve with the bottom lower left end being 100 years ago and the start of oil use. The curve slopes up to a point and then goes back down again. His contention is that we have now gone past the peak and are now on the descending slope. Meaning that we have now used up more oil than there remains in the ground.

If that explanation makes sense to you, it should scare the hell out of you. Cheap oil is gone, nevermore. The days of gas guzzlers is almost over and will be reserved for the rich.

I posted several of Mr. Simmons links in an earlier post (#94) but I'll put them in here again. It is important that people recognize what is really going on.

http://www.iags.org/n0331043.htm

Here's his site:

http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/

And two interesting presentations on the problem that he's recently given (pdf format):

http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/files... July 1.pdf

http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/files...0Peak oil.pdf

 

[elmerfudd]

I haven't read any of this, so forgive me for not knowing where the discussion is, but I'd just like to say that Americans need to STFU about their gas prices.

Sure your gas is expensive, but so is everyone else's. I did a little calculations and coverting gallons to litres and such, your gas, albeit more expensive than usual, is still probably the CHEAPEST gas in the world!! (relatively speaking)

So stop complaining, because Canada and Europe (not to mention the less advantaged countries) are much worse off.

Right now in my city, gas is over $1.30 a litre. After all the conversions and such, this works out to over $5.00 a gallon (in the US). When I was in Florida a few weeks ago, the gas there was only like $3.50 a gallon, or there abouts.

When you are getting anally gas raped like Europe is, THEN you can complain.

Thank you.

For someone who hasn't read any of this , and telling us to STFU ! Me thinks you are anally retentive . Have you checked on the exchange rate ? If I change $1 in Euro it's .80 and if I change $1 in British pound I get .54 cents . so calculate that and see how much you would have to pay for gas. And thats Mr. American to you. !

 

[Cman]

I included the exchange rate, duh. I said above that I did all the conversions and shit.

Anyway, I'm not really interested in entering this discussion, I just get sick and tired of people complaining about living in the "best country in the world".

The US has the highest standard of living in the world, yet they probably still complain the most too. Try living in Bangladesh or something and then you'll have something WORTH complaining about.

 

[mindido]

CMan,

Not going to disagree with you there one bit.

 

[elmerfudd]

Oh , so your complaining, about us complaining ?

 

[Bob_Box]

Oh , so your complaining, about us complaining ?

I think he's trying to say your a dumb ass politely.

 

[elmerfudd]

I think he's trying to say your a dumb ass politely.

Yes, but if he's trying to say that Americans are complainers is way off ! We Bitch !

 

[mindido]

Well, I guess we better get prepared for another big hike in gasoline prices. Over the last couple of weeks, after reaching a high of about $71 per barrel, oil was falling and reached about $63 per barrel until yesterday when it jumped to about $67 per barrel over worries about Hurricane Rita.

Watch this one carefully (and keep your gas tank filled). She's currently just entering the Gulf and has just been classified as a Cat 1 (as of 9:15 a.m. CDT). Her currently projected path takes her somewhere in the vicinity of Houston, Galveston, N.O. If she hits Houston as a Cat 4 or 5 watch gas prices go through the roof (probably $6 to $8 per gallon). Maybe even higher.

 

[singhr]

..and keep your gas tank filled..

Ugh! Don't keep your gas tank filled all the time! If people are acting like there is going to be no gas and are constantly hoarding it, then the prices will go up even more. It's a simple principle of supply and demand. The more that gas stations run out of gas like they did a few weeks ago, the worse off we'll be.

Just drive as normal, fill up as normal, and gas prices won't go up more than they need to.

 

[mindido]

singr,

Well, I do agree with the supply and demand theory. I'm just saying that if I were you, I'd keep it filled and keep a close eye on where this hurricane goes. If it hits Houston (or one of the other Texas ports with a lot of refineries) just like Katrina hit N.O. watch gas prices soar.

And by the way, by 12:30 p.m. CDT, Rita is now a Cat 2 and getting close to Cat 3. Seems the Gulf's warm water temps are exactly what a hurricane loves.

 

[mindido]

An interesting article about gas pricing and gouging.

http://159.54.226.83/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050921/STATE/509210338/1042

Just one quote:

"At $65 for a 44-gallon barrel of crude oil, he said, the retail price of gasoline should be about $2.30 per gallon. The national average Monday was $2.78 per gallon, down from $2.95 a week ago. To be at $3 per gallon, Nichols said a barrel of crude should be at $95."

Nope, no price gouging going on around here.

 

[mindido]

An article on the consequences of high oil prices.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050928/ap_on_bi_ge/late_loans

 

[mindido]

A question.

Has anyone following this thread actually modified their driving due to the high gas prices? Wholesale oil prices have fallen to about $61.50 per barrel this a.m. reportedly due to lower demand.

Just wondering.

 

[Ma'elKoth]

Well I haven't really been following the thread closely and the only thing that's change about my Gas needs is that I don't top it off when i get gas i keep it between 1/2 and 3/4 full and don't fill it till i'm at about 1/4...

 

[mindido]

Ma'elKoth,

Well, it does sound like the high prices have modified your usage. I've found that I'm also not filling up all the time like I used to. I'll put enough in for what I need for a few days and wait to see what prices do.

An interesting story just on CNBC. Want to buy a big SUV? Nows the time. People are apparently flocking to get rid of the things only to find that they can only get 30% to 40% below blue book value (if they can find anyone to buy them). Ouch!

 

[cableguy]

i have been away a while... i have noticed a few things in my absence from here... yesterday, oil dropped below $60, and prices at the pumps continue to fall... they rose briefly for rita, but when that passed, down they come again... i have been saying for months that gas in the USA will stabilize around $2/gallon... i am holding to that... even if it doesnt, i wont change my driving habits a bit... something about taking 300 ponies out for a trot every now and then just makes me smile... even if it costs a little more than it used to... the key word there is LITTLE, folks...

mindido, as i stated previously, i am looking for a suburban or yukon xl, but am not seeing the 30-40% below book cost... whereabouts in wisconsin do you live?? i am just across the border in the twins...

back to my musings... i have noticed a trend lately that i believe to be new... some talking head, usually half panicked and talking about doomsday, will predict gas prices to reach a certain level within a week or a few days... just like magic, and for no reason whatsoever, they DO... this is what is known as a self fulfilling prophesy... you mention it, and gas station owners figure they can post that price... perhaps the folks talking the price of gas up should be included in this price fixing talk... just a thought...

 

[mindido]

cable,

"below $60"?

Not quite, at least recently. Yesterday it got down to about $61.50 but is back up to $61.90 (as of 9:53 a.m. CDT) today. What happens the rest of the day? Who knows.

"$2/gallon"

Probably not anytime soon. We still have almost two months left in the hurricane season, most of the oil platforms in the Gulf are down and will continue to be for several months at least (at least 40 are irreparable or at the bottom of the Gulf), most of the refineries between N.O. and Houston are either down or at very limited production, and we're now entering heating season. From everything I've seen, heard and read; we won't see $2/gallon any time soon. In fact, its more likely that by next summer we'll see an average of $4.00 per gallon.

"i wont change my driving habits a bit..."

Thats certainly up to you but I would suggest thats not all that smart. I'd prefer to put my money anywhere other than in the hands of the arabs and big oil.

"i am looking for a suburban or yukon xl, but am not seeing the 30-40% below book cost... "

As I said earlier, that was from a CNBC report yesterday (and which was elaborated upon this a.m.) which was based out of Chicago. Just for fun yesterday, I did check on the availability of those type of vehicles locally and online and there are a ton. I guess its up to you to use the info provided in your bargaining.

The "self fulfilling prophecy"? It certainly isn't new. I can remember the same things happening back in the 70's (twice). Its what analysts (in any field) do.

"price fixing"

No doubt about that. There are now only five or six major oil companies in the US and they are spending a lot of their time trying to get rid of the independents (one way or another). Thats why this is known as "price gouging".

 

[cableguy]

i fear you are suffering from bad information... first, there are very FEW oil platforms that are NOT in operation in the gulf... most made it through the storms just fine, and as soon as they were re-manned, they resumed production... most of the refineries are also back up and running... and were a day or two after the hurricanes hit...

you are reading doom and gloom reporting, and not looking at the reasons for oil being where it is, and for gas prices being where they are... neither is justified, and the economy WILL correct this... the sooner the naysayers shut the hell up, the sooner this will happen...

 

[mindido]

well cable,

Where exactly do you get your info from???? I try and keep up with 5 or 6 resources weekly and listen to CNBC daily. Not one says anything like your espousing. Why is that? Oh, I forgot, your the only person in the cable school of economics. Is that accredited, by the way?