Rap "Artists"

[Supafly]

Hey at least I didn't have flick people off and moon people

Neither did I.

 

[nekkid]

I guess I didn't know what you meant Supafly. Still not sure..

Just for the record, I don't "hate" rap. I just don't consider it legitimate music.

Some people say its an art form. Well, that is very broad. Almost anything can be considered art. Art is very opinionated and vague. My crazy ass friend takes pictures of his shits that he takes. He calls it shitography, he says its art. I laughed my ass off, and then thought well I guess in a way he is right. So by definition rap is art. (I am not saying rap=shitography haha)

I used to like rap a lot. I am from detroit and I am in my late twenties so I grew up with it. I am actually quite knowledgable with it. However I was very disappointed when I got older and started hear songs that were virtually identical. So at firs I thought, well its just a few of them that suck. Then I found out that they ALL do it. It was like finding out santa claus wasn't real. Have you ever seen a little kid when the find out santa claus isn't real? They go ballistic! (and I am not saying that I act like a little kid either) They find out that they were lied to. tricked into behaving how their parents wanted them to for monetary rewards. Maybe they dont think that deep into, it was just an example, probably a shitty one.

I guess I could be considered a music snob for how I feel about it. I just like things that are real and I don't like to be decieved.

I like bands like Blodhound gang, beck, the white stripes. But I lost a ton of respect for their music abilities when I found out they used other peoples music on occasion. Even though they do admidt to it.

There is one thing that I do like about rap. I will admidt. Freestyle. I think it is incredible when they make their words flow and rhyme togther off the top of their heads. Rap battles are very cool to me. It is so difficult that very few people can do it. Even a lot of platinum selling rappers suck at it. Its a testiment to that ability.That is something that I could never do. I have tried it while intoxicated and it is always a comical disaster!

Rap is what it is. For me though its hard to get past what I consider the unoriginal part of it.

On a side not Did anyone see the MTV music awards? Did you see the Hip-Hopera? Oh my god, what was that? Does puff daddy think that he was being a real composer? wow. At times I thought he actually thoght that the musicians were watching him for the changes, I was a little confused. It was pretty terrible IMO anyway.

 

[RichieTBaum]

Ok, I don't want to continue with this feud because you continuously respond without even mentioning key points that I have made.

The fact that you're going back to my Vanilla Ice example shows that you couldn't find anything else to quote me on. Everything that I've said in the various posts on this thread match up. I have made it a point for none of my statements to be contradictory to each other.

Whether you agree or not, the beat in "Ice, Ice, Baby" sounds much closer to "Under Pressure" than "Xxplosive" does to "Bumpy's Lament." The whole reason that I used the Vanilla Ice reference was beacuase it is the most obvious sample of all time.

Also, I'm glad you think it's funny that I claimed that the Dre songs had no samples. Unfortunately I beat you to the chase by admitting that I was wrong. So, what use is there for pointing out that I was wrong about the samples? I took full responsibility for the mistakes.

Speaking of funny things, I find it interesting that you didn't say anything more about Dre's court case, the Chuck D quote, or about the article that I included. I will say again that the quote from that article sums up my general opinion of sampling. ("shamelessly raids older forms of pop culture...reshapes the material to fit the artists personality...")

As far as my use of smileys is concerned, I'm sure that you would have used them if you knew how to. Instead, you decided to use sarcastic and snide remarks.

I do not love rap. I enjoy GOOD rap and I have stated my views on it to the best of my ability.
I have also admitted when I was wrong and I don't believe that you've proven me wrong on the topic as a whole.

And oh yeah, you're right, "Oscar De la Roch" does have talent.

 

[nekkid]

"Ok, I don't want to continue with this feud because you continuously respond without even mentioning key points that I have made. "

If you were done with the "feud". You wouldn't have kept arguing for 7 more paragraphs.

"The fact that you're going back to my Vanilla Ice example shows that you couldn't find anything else to quote me on. Everything that I've said in the various posts on this thread match up. I have made it a point for none of my statements to be contradictory to each other. "

Ya there was nothing else to quote you on, because I had already explained everything else.

You worte this....

"Forgot About Dre, no samples
Explosive, no samples
Still D.R.E, one of my favorite rap beats ever, no samples
What's the Difference, no samples
The Next Episode, no samples"

Then I proved this to be painfully wrong. You claimed your "terminology was incorrect.

NOW you are writiing..

"Also, I'm glad you think it's funny that I claimed that the Dre songs had no samples. Unfortunately I beat you to the chase by admitting that I was wrong. So, what use is there for pointing out that I was wrong about the samples? I took full responsibility for the mistakes. "

You beat me to the chase? Umm.. no. You said they had no samples. Then I said they did. Then you said you were wrong. What chase did you beat me in exactly?

"Speaking of funny things, I find it interesting that you didn't say anything more about Dre's court case, the Chuck D quote, or about the article that I included. I will say again that the quote from that article sums up my general opinion of sampling. ("shamelessly raids older forms of pop culture...reshapes the material to fit the artists personality...")

Dude I posted that article and already commented on it. I was done with it. My point was that if someone like chuck d, who was at the forefront of rap, and a great lyricist according to you, says that rap is not music. I think that speaks for itself. If you want me to comment further I will

shamelessly raids older forms of pop culture...reshapes the material to fit the artists personality...") = a fancy way of saying. We can't play instruments or come up with our own ideas for music so we shamelessly take others creations and make them our own. I have said that already in so many words so I didn't want to be repetitive.


"As far as my use of smileys is concerned, I'm sure that you would have used them if you knew how to. Instead, you decided to use sarcastic and snide remarks. "

Yes. I have no idea how to use smiley faces. Nor do I care to learn. Sarcastic? No way I really had a nightmare. It was intense.

"I have also admitted when I was wrong and I don't believe that you've proven me wrong on the topic as a whole. "

The argument as a whole? Here is my synopsis. Tell me if I am leaving anything out although I'm pretty confident that you will. In my opinion this caused the most fuss and was the basis..

--"As far as new beats are concerned, you obviously haven't listened to material by NWA, Dr. Dre, or the Neptunes. Although albums by those artists may include songs with samples, many are COMPLETELY ORIGINAL with no samples at all"

I don't need to recap again but I proved this false about dre.

--I said there arent any meaningful lyrics in rap. And asked someone to show me some.

I have posted lyrics by NWA, Kanye West, and alittle from 2pac and Snoop. You said most people would disagree that was all. This really can not be proven right or wrong since it is an opinion. but I would still like to see what you could come up with.

There were other small squabbles about movies and comedians and maybe a few other things. However The big one was the use of samples for dre and considering that you have admited being wrong I don't see how you have NOT been proven wrong as a whole...

 

[Supafly]

I guess I didn't know what you meant Supafly. Still not sure..

This really can not be proven right or wrong since it is an opinion.

That's what I'm talking about.

 

[RichieTBaum]

Nekkid, you've destroyed me. Your awesome examples and keen use of typed words have put me in my place. Your opinions reign supreme and I will bow to your all powerful ideas on rap music. Oh wait, it isn't music so how about "sample-ridden and talentless garbage? Consider me enlightened. I will now retreat to my cave and listen to some records by Rage Against the Machine and their lead singer, Oscar de la roch.

 

[Dutchie]

This kind of says it all....

 

[OCC-402]

Duchie LOL :banana::banana:


....but yeh as said most of rap is crap, it has been around for 20 years ya gotta expect the shit to go stale after awhile and now with it total commercal acceptance its faaaar less cutting edge and far more whoring to the public (50 cent anyone?) They will all say they're "artists" but really its like a DJ saying he's a grand musical artiste, in the end its all the same bullshit, you standing on the shoulders of geniuses and taking the credit for yourself. Rapping takes no talent, it talking over a designated beat. Now this is not to say there aren't talented people in the buisness it's just that it's become sooooo fucking eaasy for any crack addict to come in off "the streets" and cut a record about "pimpin' those hos and making that dough" whist the more talented go unnoticed and die out in obsurity just because they didn't start out as some crack dealing sonofa bitch


so I'll just get this out of the way now as a trance DJ I'd like to say....


FUCK RAP AND ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO CONSTANTLY ASK FOR SEAN PAUL, YOU GO TO HELL, YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE!!!!!

 

[endymion]

My only worry is that the youth of today (I'm a little too old to be included in that now), is going to hear "rap" played on MTV and think it's true, authentic rap. Like I'm worried that they'll think that Simple Plan and Avril Lavigne are "punk". I figure you can like anything you're into, just make sure you have respect and learn from where it came from. I went to a BEP concert a few weeks ago and the guitarist went into a solo from "Sweet Child Of Mine". 90% of the audience, mostly around 17. had now idea what the riff was from. That's just sad. Music basically all started in the same place, you need to know the history to really appreciate what is has become. In any form, even if you don't particularly like it.

 

[RichieTBaum]

There are too many people that think the best available music is what is played on radio stations. Afterall, the majority of radio stations play from a setlist of hits with random songs mixed into the rotation on a monthly turnover. In other words, a station will play the same 40 songs over and over with a few older "hits" thrown in to mix it up a bit. While I wish that only applied to pop stations, sadly, it doesn't. It's just as bad or worse on rap stations. The only time you ever hear good rap is on Sunday nights during a typical "Old-Skool" feature. They bust out CL Smooth, Run DMC, and NWA stuff and refer to it as if it's ancient material. Rap music has only been around (in mainstream regard) for about 25 years. So fans of rap music have no excuse for thinking that 50 Cent and Ja Rule are the best that the genre has to offer. So yeah, most of rap is garbage, but it's not too hard to find the good stuff.

 

[MysterioX]

Ok ive just seen this thread and read the first couple of paragraphs and if youre basing all your argument on artists like kan ye west and bow wow then you obviously dont know much about rap/hip hop as it is today.
Yeah hip hop was fresh in the 70's and 80's but things have to move on and hip hop encorouges that theres always been shit artists its just its alot easier to suck thesedays.
Personally im loving hiphop and rap today and was loving it back in the day.
Listen to some of these artists to see if you can be convinced otherwise about the rap scene today:

- mf doom
- del the funky homosapien
- exucutioners
- mostly anything from stones throw label. www.stonesthrow.com
- rjd2
- common
- lordfunk
- mixmastermike

i could go on forever but that should do it.

Peace

 

[weirju]

Hey guys!

Very interesting debate/feud/argument.

All I have to say is nowadays, the music industry ( Rock/Pop/Hip Hop/ Rap, etc), they are not making music, they're making money. So anything that's gonna make a smash hit on MTV or on radio, they will do it.

There's no such thing as art anymore in the music industry, just a few who still keep it real. It use to be about art, passion, inspiration, etc. Punk music was about revolution, against the system. Rock was about rebel, Rap was about a way African american expressed themselves about racism, police brutality, poverty, etc.

Punk is now Pop Punk (Blink-182), Rock is about ....euh..i don't even know (Nickelback) and Rap, well, money, bitches, power, feud, violent, basically nothing you could learn from or meaningful (of course, there's always some exception, The Roots, West, etc)

R.A.P. is Rythmes And Poetry, not alot of new school is Rythmes And Poetry, those new school tend to forget where all Rap and Hip Hop phenom came from. They're blind by the bling bling that could make so they do whatever it takes to have it, and who could blames them.

I think those new school could still keep it real, make one very commercial album, with all the hits on MTV.Then, the next one, keep it more real, keep it to the roots. But i'm just talking to say nothing, it won't happen.

I just think is sad that $$$ have to do with everything. African Americans forgot about where they came from and their roots. Centuries ago, black prisonners were force to wear baggy pants with no belt, so they can't run and escape from the white folks. And now, what do we see in the street and the hip hop fasion?

African Americans was and still is the main focus whenever there's a crime, look in the news, the media, the show COPS. And guys like 50 Cents and the Game is promoting this image? Listen to their lyrics, look the way they dressed, the way they project their image, it doesn't help at all. It's a very bad gimmick.

Spike Lee said it; African-American should get educated and pull themselves togheter and stop listen to Gansta Rap.

I say listen to A Tribe Called Quest, Run DMC and Public Enemy; that's what RAP was all about, not money, not fashion, not about the image.

 

[nekkid]

Mysterio, I have heard of MixMaster Mike, Rjd2, and del. MixMaster mike? What is he doing that is so great. Sure he is excellent dj, maybe the best but, why would you put him in that list. I actually saw him live he opened for GNR a few years back (I really went to see the other opener cKy) all he did was mix led zeppelin records behind a hip-hop base beat. I am impressed with his work with the beastie boys.

I only heard a few songs from del, he isn't bad as far as rap goes. But you cosider rjd2 rap? They sample beats but I consider it more techno than anything.

I'm Gonna check out those other groups though..

I agree with youRichie about raadio. Corporate America has killed radio. There really is no need for a dj anymore. Seriously they should just fire the dj's and play the commercials and music, they would save a ton of money. The dj has no say in what gets played. I think its hilarious that dj's still take "requests" what a joke that is "well, request anything you want as long as it is one of these 40 songs." The only hope will be satellite, maybe that will turn things around. Then finally music that is against the norm (or the norm that the corporate suites consider norm) might get heard.

 

[RichieTBaum]

Tom Petty had a song called "The Last DJ" that kind of touched on that. You are correct in saying that DJ's are essentially irrelevant on mass radio. They may pick songs out, but like you said, the songs come froma pre-determined setlist. And have you heard of the "Jack-radio" fromat? They play all kinds of (bad) 80's songs, adult contemporary stuff like Dido, and alternative stuff from the early 90's. So while there is a self proclaimed "huge variety," who wants to hear any of that garbage haha.

The satellite radio concept is cool, but I don't see myself ever paying to listen to someone else's playlists, especially when I can just burn an mp3 CD. And Howard Stern is getting old, real old.

 

[nekkid]

Ya I heard that that whole Petty album was about that subject. I think I'm gonna download it now. Yeah I think satelite is kinda like cable tv when that first came out. People were like "pay for tv? tv is free.."

I had 3 free months of xm radio and i was not that impressed. I would like to get sirius, I like the idea of people like bam margera and others who dig indy rock ( and anything other than corporate music) getting to play whatever they want uncencored. Radio used to be the only place other than mtv where you could hear new music. That would be cool if radio was important again I agree I would not be getting sirius for howard stern.

 

[wwefan]

I still like will smith though he's rap for every one!

 

[bayareaballer10]

Alright, I'm fed up with today's rap artist. Guys like Kanye West, Bow Wow, and others are just putting out ridiculous crap. First of all, I heard on MTV that Kanye West questioned his sexuallity when he was younger. Ok, I get it now. The reason why Kanye West can string together some words is cause he is gay. Maybe he should write a book of poetry with Jewel rather then put out lame rap songs. Now we got guys like Bow Wow, and Lil Romeo putting out crappy rap songs about their jewlery and cars and they act like they are "hard". We also got 50 Cent and The Game who agreed to end their fued because they want to set a good example for children. Wow. Now I am an old school rap fan and I want to know what 2-Pac, Biggy Smalls, Too-Short have to say about this crap these rappers put out. Making an example for children? 2-Pac once rapped that he'd make sure Biggy's children don't grow cuz he's gonna blow him away with his .44. Well I guess today's rappers know that they we'll end up dead if they go at each other and I'm not enducing violence. But Chris Rock said it best when he said today's rap is so shitty, that the best rapper today is a white guy (Eminem). I would just like to hear what everyone else has got to say about today's Hip Hop world.

hey monkey man shut the fuck up EMINEM THE BEST RAPPER??? OMFG YOU MUST BE CANADIEN...KANYE WEST GAY HMMM? HE SAID HE WAS HOMOPHOBIC...BEING COMPLETELY OPPOSITE OF GAY, AND YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT KANYES BROUGHT TO THE GAME HAVE YOU LISTENED TO HIS ALBUMS??? THE COLLEGE DROPOUT IS THE BEST ALBUM OF ALL TIME, I HATE PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO JUST LABEL PEOPLE AND THEN FUCKIN YELL ABOUT IT BECAUSE YOURE JEALOUS..KANYE IS THE BEST PRODUCER (PEOPLE WHO MAKE BEATS CUZ I KNOW YOU DONT KNOW THAT) IN THE ENTIRE HIP HOP/R&B GENRES TODAY AND HIS RAPS? NO ONE COMIN OUT WITH SHIT TODAY IS ANY BETTER....? NAS JAYZ YEA THAS GOOD SHIT BUT CHAMILLIONAIRE..SO MONKEYMAN SIT DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP and

 

[bayareaballer10]

I still like will smith though he's rap for every one!

haha wow he raps for everyone LIKE WHO? WHO? I dont even think ive seen 1 will smith feature only him on his own albums and the fresh prince theme lol WWE FAN you just gotta be quiet you almost sound as dumb as MONKEYMAN

 

[bayareaballer10]

Ok ive just seen this thread and read the first couple of paragraphs and if youre basing all your argument on artists like kan ye west and bow wow then you obviously dont know much about rap/hip hop as it is today.
Yeah hip hop was fresh in the 70's and 80's but things have to move on and hip hop encorouges that theres always been shit artists its just its alot easier to suck thesedays.
Personally im loving hiphop and rap today and was loving it back in the day.
Listen to some of these artists to see if you can be convinced otherwise about the rap scene today:

- mf doom
- del the funky homosapien
- exucutioners
- mostly anything from stones throw label. www.stonesthrow.com
- rjd2
- common
- lordfunk
- mixmastermike

i could go on forever but that should do it.

Peace

yes yes this is a guy that knows his music dont know the top 2 but i know that common is THE MOST UNDERRATED EMCEE EVER I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YOU THO there was like 1 song from the 70s rap is still fresh today you just need to not rely on the radio, im not sayin being mainstream is bad, its just that its usually not got the best talent

 

[focus6974]

Speaking from an outsider, the old school rap seemed a hell of a lot better than the garbage they put out now. I think only Nelly stand out. The rest are really crab. And when I watch MTV Cribs and see all these rappers living so lavishly, one person pops in my mind - "MIKE TYSON". Unless theyre like P Diddy who diversifies his earning capabilty, these rappers quacks will be broke in a couple of years with all their free-loading friends/posse. I can't understand this black culture in american and always feeling the whole of america owes them a living.