Environmental Issues

[mindido]

cartman,

"pandering to an increasingly gullible public in no way is an admission of anything... i have seen the commercials as well, and they disgust me... what has happened here is that a lie has been told so many times..."

Or..... Maybe the oil companies know something that you don't. And the thing is, they've known about global warming for a long time.

"that those among us with weak constitutions and lesser abilities of reasoning..."

Now that I would agree with.

 

[cableguy]

the case for manmade global warming still lacks causative evidence... it is a house of cards built on a shaky foundation of supposition and wishes that are based in anti-capitalistic ideals...

that said, the aforementioned idiots-at-large can, when properly molded by a web of deciet and lies, be brought to bear with some effectiveness... congratulations, you have resorted to lying to the masses so frequently that you are able to advance your political goals because they might be starting to believe what a functioning brain would immediately discard as fallacious and irresponsible rhetoric.. i would much rather be honest in defeat than have to resort to lying, cheating, misrepresentations, and falsehoods in order to win...

oh, why was kyoto defeated unanimously in the US senate?? anyone??

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

All i know is, this is the mildest summer i can remember for all my life where i live. Used to you could run asshole naked till dark all the way through the end of November and i'm already wearing a jacket. For 2 fuck'n weeks now! Fuck i hate cold. I think hell should be covered in icicles with constant blizzards, with a big ass mug of hot cocoa steaming in the middle that you can never reach. On halloween i watched the scariest movie bar-none of all time. You know the one. It has the scene where the poor dog got his nuts frozen on the front porch. That poor cold dog :sad: Such a horrible scene in movie history. I gotta go put some lotion on this dry ass skin before i get crows feet. Yall keep some dry wood by the fireplace and hold out till spring.

 

[Iceberg]

oh, why was kyoto defeated unanimously in the US senate?? anyone??

It's because senators from both parties don't want to lose the funding from the energy industry. Campaign finance reform, eliminating corporate donations to political campaigns would eliminate this pork-barrel politics crap forever and actually get something positive done in the US.

 

[cableguy]

duke, wooly bear caterpillars say this winter will be mild... never fear... also, where the hell do you live that you had to get a jacket out already?? up in minnesota, we have only had a couple nights frost yet... i have dug out some sweatshirts, and expect in a few weeks, i might have to find a jacket, but im just fine for now...

oh, the mild summer was caused by man-made global warming, as is EVERY weather phenomenon, normal or abstract... you should know that by now...

iceberg, we GOT campaign finance reform... and now we have moveon.crap and the like... that unconstitutional pile of camel shit shouldnt have ever seen the light of day... pork barrel stuff sucks and needs to end... period... funding from the energy industry... i havent seen the numbers, but logic suggests that there are a few senators that probably didnt recieve much funding from said energy companies... there are certain senators that seem to oppose any and all energy creation that pollutes at all, and any non-polluting energy that is visible from their homes... i am sure you can find a few that had no reason to vote against it aside from it being so bad for this country that a vote for it could defeat them in the next election...

 

[mindido]

cartman,

"wooly bear caterpillars..."???

Oh jeez, that figures....

"mild summer"???

Gosh, we just had the 2nd hottest on record.

 

[endymion]

Even if global warming wasn't a big threat, (which I believe it is), what's the harm in trying to find alternate fuels? Tex, Duke and Cable, you guys are massively pro-US, with good reason, you live there. So how much do you want to be paying per barrel of oil when the oil in the world starts to dry up. Forget the warming, think of the expense, and of the crash of the US economy when all the jobs that rely on oil to survive come grinding to a halt. That's one reason the US won't sign the Kyoto protocol (neither will Australia, but we're working to change that), because cutting down on the use of fossil fuels that pollute will slow the economy. So even if you think global warming is crap, you've gotta realise that use over-reliance on fossil fuels could lead to a very ugly future for a lot of oil consuming nations. Particularly the US, who until 1994 were producing half of their own oil need daily. By 2003 they were consuming roughly 20 million barrels per day, and of that they were importing 11.1 million. This trend will continue, and it will get much much worse.

 

[Iceberg]

To add to endymion's point, why would one who is so pro-US wish to drive a gas-guzzling SUV or large truck when you know that a good chunk of the money you spend on gas goes to nations which harbour Islamic terrorists who want to kill you?

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

And to take away from his point, your great great great grandchildren won't see the drying up of oil.

 

[Iceberg]

And to take away from his point, your great great great grandchildren won't see the drying up of oil.

You're right. They won't even know what oil is, because within my lifetime, I will witness "the drying up of oil." My GGG-Grandchildren will not be born until roughly 50 years after I die, which is probably nearly 100 years after the end of oil.

 

[t3sqr]

To add to endymion's point, why would one who is so pro-US wish to drive a gas-guzzling SUV or large truck when you know that a good chunk of the money you spend on gas goes to nations which harbour Islamic terrorists who want to kill you?

Hey Ice, of the imported oil that comes to the U.S. from other countries less than 1/3 of it comes from across the pond. Most of the remainder of it comes from the "Americas" South and North. 22% from Canada and 20% from Mexico.

I didn't know that Canada and Mexico were harboring Islamic terrorists!!
Man... if you are.... Your Next!!!

And to Boot... My American made Gas Guzzling Truck (6.6L) gets better gas mileage (22 MPG) than a 1980's version Nissan mini truck with a 4 cyl. engine (2.0L) at 18 MPG.

 

[Iceberg]

t3sqr, I was talking about the closeness of the current US Administration to the Saudis and to other Middle Eastern nations, solely for their supplies of oil. These nations are powderkegs of Islamic terror and the US supplies the fire to ignite them by being in there.

And to Boot... My American made Gas Guzzling Truck (6.6L) gets better gas mileage (22 MPG) than a 1980's version Nissan mini truck with a 4 cyl. engine (2.0L) at 18 MPG.

That's not much of an increase in fuel efficiency. The technology is there to have at least a 30 mpg truck with the same power, but the auto industry is very slow in adapting these to the market.

Do you have any practical uses for your truck? If not, then you're not doing your part to protect the environment and conserve oil for more practical uses.

 

[t3sqr]

Ice, I can haul almost 3 times as much, tow 4 times as much, in half the amout of time, and use less fuel, everyday. More product, faster delivery, more production, less time on the road, less traffic congestion, less pollution. So, fuel efficiency is only one part of a much larger picture here. Practical uses??? yea I'd say so

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

You're right. They won't even know what oil is, because within my lifetime, I will witness "the drying up of oil." My GGG-Grandchildren will not be born until roughly 50 years after I die, which is probably nearly 100 years after the end of oil.

Holy shit Ice you must have discovered the youth secret. That would make you well over 400 years old when you die!! So come on buddy what is it? Do tell.

 

[cableguy]

micro, those caterpillers have yet to be wrong, and i have been looking at them for about 25 years or so...

this summer was rather mild here... we had a string of 90+ days, but only a couple in the 100s... a bit low, really... also, farmers are reporting more crops than they know what to do with... so much for your mid-summer panic about drought and starving farmers due to dead crops...

endy, there is NO problem in pursuing alternate fuels... the problem is when those alternatives are forced upon us... ethanol burns cleaner than gas, but pollutes more in the long run due to processing pollution... it also is a lot more expensive, and is bad for engines...

the worlds oil supply is not drying up.... most of it remains untapped due to various environmental regulations... these regulations are great if you happen to hate this country, but thats where it ends... free economies run on oil, and will do so until a SENSIBLE alternative is found... by sensible, i mean affordable, abundant, and profitable...

iceberg, a good chunk of my income, far more than what i spend on gas, goes to the US military, who currently is tasked with killing such terrorists... i have made my peace with that argument...

iceberg, since you seem to know more about the auto industry than any and all of the market analysts the auto industry employs, please tell us exactly what this 30mpg technology is, and explain to me why, in this day of whining consumers, it isnt being integrated immediately??? i will accept any answer that does not involve shrinking the size of vehicles, or reducing the power currently available in existing models... inquiring minds want to know....

t3, outstanding point... unfortunately, if you are only a little bit better than the underpowered, foreign built, small alternative, it simply isnt worthwhile... if you are that same little bit worse than the alternative, they will surely find a rope and look for an oak tree to hang you from... "a little" seems to only work one way with these folks.... its all about class envy and anti-capitalism... oh, and the bogeyman....

 

[Texan]

RAIN FORESTS PAYING PRICE FOR BIO-FUELS... Robbing Peter to pay Paul how fitting. Question for you leftist tree huggers, whats more important, the rain forest or bio-fuels? My opinion is that the rain forests are far more important than bio-fuels. The next time yall start pointing the finger at the US and/or oil companies maybe try a look inwards. But what the hell do I know I am just an evil conservative with common sense who understands cause/effect.

 

[mindido]

Tex,

Pretty disturbing and doesn't make a lot of sence. But I do find one thing of particular interest.

Soybeans? If I remember correctly, the US produces more soybeans than we know what to do with (largest producer in the world if I remember correctly). So why don't they just buy them from us? Could it be that they don't trust us anymore or don't like some of our policies? Wonder why that might be?

 

[cableguy]

i dont believe there is much of a soybean surplus in the US... they are used for a ton of things, and i would imagine exports of said produce are rather high... as to why they dont buy them from us, i have two points to make...

first, it is dramatically cheaper to grow than to buy... ask yourself if you would spend extra for something you could do yourself and save a bunch of money...

if it can be said that brazil doesnt trust the US, or like its foreign or domestic policy, you still have no argument that doesnt make hash of another of your pet opinions... if saving the rainforest (hereafter referred to by its proper name--jungle) is so important, and if global warming is such a threat to mankind, where, exactly, is the justification for destroying said jungle instead of *gasp* buying something from someone you have some squabble with??

which is more important, saving the planet/rainforest, or making a point of protest??

bottom line, i still believe its about money, but if i am wrong, point two most definitely applies.. apparently, petty bickering is more important to you greenies than saving the planet (which, despite claims to the contrary, doesnt need saving). if things are as bad as you make them out to be, there really isnt a choice available... pride must be swallowed, and sometimes, in the interest of the greater good, you might just have to buy something from an opponent...

 

[endymion]

I was walking past a lady the other day and she handed me a pamphlet which was about saving the environment. Brilliant. Let's cut down trees and make pamphlets of them to tell people to be careful with the environment. I wanted to slap her. Sometimes even the people I agree with (mostly) shit me to tears.

 

[Iceberg]

The reason why Europe won't purchase soybeans from the US is because the vast majority of US-grown soybeans are genetically modified. GMOs are prohibited (at least for now) in Europe, so if the US wished to sell their soybeans to Europe, they would have to say goodbye to Monsanto, etc. and hello to organic/biologic farming.

This would be a great step in reducing the destruction of the Amazon rainforest in Brazil, since a lot of that land cleared of forest is used to produce GMO-free soybeans for the European market.

However, the US would have to get off their GMO-craving governments, the parties of which receive large contributions from the biotech industries. This would require the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform bill to pass and for corporate lobbying, rampant in the US, to cease.