Gun Law

[Brianwp]

Boy, you should have been a lawyer, scounds! You don't give up, reminds me of someone else I know...

In snapper's defense, I think you know what he was trying to say about the box cutters and fertilizer. Those scumbags with their box cutters caused a lot more damage than a guy with a gun could ever had. Same with McVeigh. A guy with a gun could have done a lot of good that day on one of those planes.

If people want other people dead, thay'll find a way to get it done, guns or no guns. The only valid point you all have is that yeah, a gun makes it easier to hurt someone. But the point is, if you ban guns, what's next? Crossbows? Compound bows? Swords? Knives? Box cutters? It's a matter of personal rights, and that is a very dear ideal to most Americans, the stuff of which our country was founded on.

By the way, I'd be interested to know how the ratio is on violence using knives, and other weapons in England compared to the US. Since guns were banned, has crime with other weapons risen?

 

[-KA-]

Everybody already knows my opinion about the topics so I won't even bother to make a reply that makes sense, instead I continue my series of "dumbest f*cking quotes".

A guy with a gun could have done a lot of good that day on one of those planes.

Ok. Explain me this. I don't like the word COULD. A gun and a plane is NEVER a good combination.

Anyway.. about guns and feeling safe. We have guns banned. Not even cops aren't allowed to shoot them unless someone else is shooting them.

And I feel safe. I've been to England. I felt safe. I've never been to the US, but I'm afraid I might get shot there with my big mouth.

 

[luddite]

Did you forget about "the troubles" in N.I. ?

 

[Sam Spade]

Did you forget about "the troubles" in N.I. ?

That is a whole different ball game, all the guns used by the paramilitaries were illegal, and they were used to murder hundreds of innocent people, on all sides of the "troubles" , most were smuggled in from Libya (and for the love of Bob i will never understand why we didn't bomb that son of a bitch Gadaffi (sp?) )


Most of the various groups have now put their weapons " beyond use".

 

[-KA-]

Again.. I have nothing "smart" to add but : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-DuOaIXwsY&feature=related

 

[BlueShinobi]

I have the greatest respect for the US, except your gun laws.

They're insane.

Nearly all of our gun crime is in our government created slums.
I imagine the reason you don't have this in the U.K. is because your government doesn't keep a large portion of the population poverty stricken and chaotic to ensure a solid reliable voting bloc for one of your political parties.

 

[Brianwp]

Ok. Explain me this. I don't like the word COULD. A gun and a plane is NEVER a good combination.

Anyway.. about guns and feeling safe. We have guns banned. Not even cops aren't allowed to shoot them unless someone else is shooting them.

And I feel safe. I've been to England. I felt safe. I've never been to the US, but I'm afraid I might get shot there with my big mouth.

First of all, I meant that if a passenger had a gun on the 9/11 flights, he could have stopped the whole tragedy from ever occurring simply by shooting the motherfuckers.

Next, you would feel just as safe in the US as you did in England. Like I said, this isn't the wild west. When you look at our population compared to our deaths by firearms, it's still a miniscule percentage. You should be far more afraid to drive a car than to be shot. As far as your mouth goes, if I've stayed alive here in Georgia with my New Jersey mouth this long, you've got nothing to worry about, believe me.

 

[Brianwp]

That is a whole different ball game, all the guns used by the paramilitaries were illegal, and they were used to murder hundreds of innocent people, on all sides of the "troubles" , most were smuggled in from Libya (and for the love of Bob i will never understand why we didn't bomb that son of a bitch Gadaffi (sp?) )


Most of the various groups have now put their weapons " beyond use".

Incedentally, Sam, we (the US) did bomb Ghadaffi, unfortunately when we bombed the bastard's palace he was out in the backyard in a fucking tent...

 

[Sam Spade]

We've had another evil sod armed with a gun go on a rampage....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/10214661.stm

Twelve innocent people gunned down at random, and 25 injured, by a man armed with an illegal gun. :sad:

Edit: ~ Looks like he used shotguns, not sure if they were held legally or not.

It was pre-meditated as the first killing took place at a taxi rank, where he worked.

 

[Snapper314]

So how did this maniac get a firearm in a country that many in this thread have been using has an example of how gun bans work?!?

:breathefi

I thought England had banned everything except for slingshots and blowguns?!?

We've had another evil sod armed with a gun go on a rampage....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/10214661.stm

Twelve innocent people gunned down at random, and 25 injured, by a man armed with an illegal gun. :sad:

Edit: ~ Looks like he used shotguns, not sure if they were held legally or not.

It was pre-meditated as the first killing too place at a taxi rank, where he worked.

 

[Sam Spade]

So how did this maniac get a firearm in a country that many in this thread have been using has an example of how gun bans work?!?

:breathefi

I thought England had banned everything except for slingshots and blowguns?!?

Like i said, it looks like he used shotguns, which are legal in the UK, farmers use them to control vermin, and game/target shooters use them.

Any one who applies for a shotgun licence undergoes a criminal records check, must provide references (from folk such as magistrates, doctors, etc and will be subject to unannounced visits by the police .

These weapons must be secured in a locked steel cabinet, which is bolted to the floor or wall unless they are being used or are being cleaned.

This guy is being described as a very quiet, nice man, no one seems to have a bad word to say about him, it has been reported that yesterday he had an argument with a fellow taxi driver, and the first victim was a fellow cabbie.

Guns, it seems are safer in the hands of the criminal, they don't go nuts and commit mass murder.

The thing is you do not know just how stressed out your co-worker or neighbour or friend is, all it takes is one small thing to tip them over the edge (i believe the US postal service is prone to this) and the next thing you know is 12 people are dead, many more injured because of a guy with guns.

Edit: ~ 8 people remain in hospital, 3 critical, 5 serious.

We will (hopefully) learn from this, and once again tighten up our gun laws.

 

[Texan]

If that guy would have pulled that kinda crap in Texas half of the people would have shot back, myself included.

 

[moxdevil]

One thing gives me comfort in the UK- we won't get hysterical as a result of this coward and start arming ourselves to the teeth thus increasing the chances of further similar incidents, but instead we'll engage our brains and come up with a sensible solution.

Can start by coming down hard on those in possession, in the main intercity gangs.

 

[luddite]

If that guy would have pulled that kinda crap in Texas half of the people would have shot back, myself included.

Did you see my post # 38 ?

That was a few years ago, have the laws changed ?

 

[Snapper314]

:nuts:

...Can start by coming down hard on those in possession, in the main intercity gangs.

News Flash...

Firearms possession is already illegal for those active in a gang. Those with firearms are already breaking the law!!

And how do you suggest we "come down hard" on those illegally in possession. Maybe house to house searches? Heck, if we're getting rid of the 2nd Ammendment, we might as well trash em all!!

:evil:

 

[moxdevil]

:nuts:

News Flash...

Firearms possession is already illegal for those active in a gang. Those with firearms are already breaking the law!!

And how do you suggest we "come down hard" on those illegally in possession. Maybe house to house searches? Heck, if we're getting rid of the 2nd Ammendment, we might as well trash em all!!

:evil:

Erm, i'm in the UK and talking about the UK. As for coming down hard on possession again i was speaking of the punishment in the UK not about legality. A proposition for the UK that i would like to see that would be completely impractical in the US is the punishment of possession; i would have the law equate possession to that of intent to kill and dish out life for anyone caught in possession. Again this is for the UK not the US.

As for the US you are fucked because you've gone way down the road of arming pretty much everyone. In my opinion for what it's worth the only thing to be done in the US is a slow disarmament of the civilian population which is unlikely to happen with powerful groups like the NRA around and a mindset of individual right instead of collective responsibility prevailing. Independence, a civil war and frontierism has made it that it is second nature for a civilian to own an arsenal.

 

[scoundrel]

The killing spree in Cumbria yesterday will have to be examined carefully in case any lessons can be learned to make a repetition less likely, but we British have already implemented severe restrictions on what guns can be privately owned and by whom. At first sight I am doubtful that further restrictions are the answer. Also, shotguns and hunting rifles are not like handguns and military grade assault rifles. Shotguns and hunting rifles have valid, peaceable applications and to prohibit their ownership would be a very serious curtailment of individual liberty. I am wary of the state creeping up on its citizens by stealth and using populist, demagogic moral-panic arguments to take away their freedoms:

My friends, we've got trouble...
Right here in River City...
Professor Harold Hill.

I would rather ask whether the existing rules on shotgun and rifle ownership were being properly overseen and implemented before talking about a whole raft of new rules.

Without wanting to give offence to American viewers of this thread, I would have to point out that the armed citizenry did not intervene at Virginia Tech (2007); they could not prevent the Geneva County massacre last year; they were unable to frustrate the Red lake massacre in 2005; they did not stop the Beltway sniper in 2002...

I would rather be surrounded by a mass of unarmed fellow citizens who mostly lack access to firearms when I irritate them.

 

[Brianwp]

I wasn't aware that there were any armed citizens at any of those events, scounds. And they couldn't have helped during the Beltway sniping, could they have?

 

[marquis]

Regarding the UK, farmers are permitted to have shotguns.They must be kept in a secure gun safe and only the licence holder can know where the key is kept.Sometimes the police visit when the licence holder is out and ask to inspect the weapon;if someone provides the key the shotgun is impounded and the licence revoked.It's as strict as that.
It's possible to acquire firearms on the black market but few criminals bother because if they get caught it's another 5 years on the sentence.Gun use has been reduced to the practical minimum yet of course events like those in Cumbria still occasionally happen.Normally the only time illegal guns are used is drug gangs shooting each other , the general public is relatively safe.
If of course you live in a country where guns are universal carrying one for protection sounds fine until you consider that the other guys have them too.Even then, it's unlikely that an armed bystander present at a shooting will be effective, even trained firearms officers hit bystanders or don't fire because of the risk to them and there's plenty of other reasons too.

 

[Brianwp]

If I was at Virginia Tech I would have nailed the motherfucker, no if's or but's. I've trained on police ranges for years. That piece of crap would be pushing up daisies by now, no doubt. And that's all I have to say about that.