Environmental Issues

[Iceberg]

I've created this topic since others have said that environmental issues are not political. (I think they are, but I guess whatever the MODs say goes.) Here we can all debate global warming, pollution, overconsumption, etc. to our hearts' delight without anyone saying BOT.

 

[Conman]

And before we even begin to start this debate, I hope you're not Anerican coz you guys are the biggest contributor to Global Warming and Pollution and are refusing to do anything about it (your government at least). The US has several times, rejected pleas from the UN to reduce waste from their industrialization and also refuses to accept proposals for reducing pollution levels on a global scale.

We all know that the US government is being held by the balls by industrial big wigs and we know what happens when one party doesn't play ball. So while these industrialists and politicians play their game, the world, our only world, dies.

So this debate is going to be about Science and Technology and the pioneering of new Scientific Frontiers to help the earth through industrialization .... versus .... conserving the earth first and working the industries to meet mother earth's needs and her ability to supply.

Been there, done that, industrialists and their money always win. We're fucked. End of debate.

 

[Dexterdoe]

I eat a lot of whole wheat. This makes my poop come out quick and clean. This means that not much is needed in the way of toilet paper. It helps.

I gave a speech in my public speekjng class stating that our town should shut down evey 5th or 10th east/west and north/south street to vehicles and make them bike only. The amount of streets to shut down would depend on how many cars would be eliminated by the switch from car to bike. If it was every 10 blocks, that would not be too bad. Make it all the way across town on bike-only roads, and only have to fight traffic for five block at the most. Much better odds. Traffic lights would function exactly as they do now. I am going to make bike wheel 'spinniers' now in anticipation. Bling bling! If I could only fit my subwoofers on my bike...
For the amount of money that would be saved on road repairs and the like, many miles could be covered for protection from sun and rain.
Most people in America won't consider riding a bike because it is too unsafe competing with latte' drinking SUV drivers.

 

[Graywolf]

The earth will recover from anything mankind will/could do.
However, mankind will long be extenct......

 

[Your_Ass]

Global Warming… I know not much has been said about this yet, but it's kind of a silly argument (whether or not it’s happening and what effect it’s having). This is a scientific argument, the effects of pollution can be observed, a hypothesis created and then tested. Its something that once studied (more) will not be open for much debate. So unless you are an environmental biologist, or whatever field studies this crap, I don’t think you can offer much more than your opinion on the topic. The facts of the matter are, there has been a rise in the Earth's temperature and we’re not sure why. Other than that there isn’t a whole lot else that’s open for scientific discussion on this topic (other than making fun of environmental hysteria).

 

[war|forever]

Dear World,

Fuck you and your Kyoto Treaty.
Our coal industry is a HUGE asset to our political campaigns.
Not to mention making a few thousand people change jobs would be death to any incumbency.

Sincerely,
America

 

[oscaraustin]

Actually, China has the worlds largest coal industry followed by the U.S., and it will get bigger yet after the 3 Gourges damn breaks on the Yangtze... good day that'll be... death, destruction... < i might be being sarcastic here, i really am not sure yet >

Global Warming: It was brought up in the other thread by someone, forgot who sorry, but I will bring it in here to as it is true: the climate records do not go back far enough to be sure whether or not the present day increase in temperature is a problem or just part of a continuing flux of the planet that has always occurred. I personally, believe it is a natural occurance sped up by human interaction, but i do not believe it is or will be planet killing.

 

[Iceberg]

the climate records do not go back far enough to be sure whether or not the present day increase in temperature is a problem or just part of a continuing flux of the planet that has always occurred.

The climate records actually go back thousands of years, from ice core, tree ring, and ocean sediment records. (An ice core taken from Antarctica has a record of 450,000 years.) They do not give temperature records as seen today (like daily high and low temperatures), but annual climate information can be easily derived from these sources.

According to these records, the carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere have increased by about 100 parts per million over the last 200 years (since the Industrial Revolution). No increase of CO2 has ever been this much over such a small time period. (In other words, the rate of CO2 increase is unprecedented.) Also, the temperature records (which are quite extensive over this period) highly correlate with this increase in CO2 levels.

These factors lead most reputable scientists to believe that human activity is the primary reason that global warming is occuring at the present time.

Oh yeah, and Conman, I'm from Canada, one of the signatories of the Kyoto Protocol.

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

I know there's no way i'll convince anyone that every instance of anything negative or derogatory from any idea, subject, or happening around the world is not a direct result of the creation of The United States of America but.....*catches breath*.....as most of you probably know, until a couple of weeks ago almost half of China's coal had been aflame for over a hundred years!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3978329.stm

 

[Iceberg]

I know there's no way i'll convince anyone that every instance of anything negative or derogatory from any idea, subject, or happening around the world is not a direct result of the creation of The United States of America but.....*catches breath*.....as most of you probably know, until a couple of weeks ago almost half of China's coal had been aflame for over a hundred years!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3978329.stm

I was never saying that the US deserves the blame for all environmental destruction. I agree that China deserves some of the blame, as does Russia (during the Communist days) and most of the rest of the world. It's just that the US has rejected most treaties that call for environmental protections.

I agree with you that China is pretty scary. (I assume that's what you are thinking, by what you were writing.) With their booming economy, environmental chaos and destruction can only result, causing terrible events, such as deadly smog (like London experienced in the 40s and 50s), extinction of many thousands of species of animals, and increased frequencies and intensities of severe weather events.

In the next two decades, China will become far scarier than the US is today. At least, in several states of the US, there are improvements being made. In China, protections are non-existent.

 

[Da' Pimp]

Just cause the US is Guilty for some of it, and I wanna Blame somebody else

 

[Gatorman]

Just cause the US is Guilty for some of it, and I wanna Blame somebody else

Ha Ha, Pimp, I get a kick out of the spin that you put on issues!! :lol: Oops,

Jibber jabber....BOT

 

[cableguy]

more from the "hate America" crowd... you say the USA pollutes more than anyone, where is your proof?? next, even IF you are right, perhaps we should scale down production of goods that the REST OF THE WORLD uses... yep, we consume most of the worlkds consumed resources, too... also not a bad thing... what you fail to take into account is that whatever pollution is created is done so in production of things... yes, part ofo the cost of things you purchase, almost without exception, is pollution... if you can find an item produced in the US that is also produced in china, india, or most of eastern europe, east germany included, and measure the pollution associated with the production of said product, it would not surprise me in the least to find the American product the "cleanest" environmentally...

kyoto is fine for a developing nation, or a nation that doesnt have a lot of mouths to feed, or for a nation that is mostly subsidized, or for a nation that has no economical aspirations... for a large, incredibly productive, strong and relatively free market nation, it is a complete disaster... we Americans dont want to drive 1.5 cylinder cars that get 200 miles to the gallon and weigh 14 pounds... they are not safe, they are not comfortable, and they are incapable of travelling long distances at a reasonable speed... we Americans dont want to double, triple, or more the cost of goods because of unreasonable pollution standards... we Americans do not wish to be punished for being successful, while worse polluters get a free pass because of "development level" or some such nonsense term... think America pollutes too much, stop buying our stuff... we may worship at the shrine of the almighty dollar, but we seem to have gotten to a rather unique stature by doing so... also, if you stop buying, that gets noticed a lot easier and faster than whining...

i would blame canada, but i find the effort to be simply not worth it...

 

[Conman]

I hate to break it to you but outside of North America and a small portion of Western Europe ... hardly anyone buys American products. Don't ask me for proof ... ask around - outside America. And why is Kyoto suddenly a comparison point for this debate?

Also, mebbe I should clarify my first statement before this goes awry ... America is the biggest ... but not the only contributor .... to the Global warming thing. But they are the only ones against a unilateral agreement to do something about it.

 

[Gowar]

Conman, I do understand that the United States consumes more energy than any other nation. And I do understand that the current administration is hardly green peace friendly. But blaming the United States as the cause of all the worlds enviromental problems is unjust and unrealistic. http://www.weforum.org/site/homepub...Ranks+Highest+in+Environmental+Index,+US+Lags
The Preceeding link ranks the United States as a middle of the pack nation in terms of enviromental sustainability. Granted this is pathetic for a nation that has the strongest economy in the world, but it is not as if the united States has fully neglected its responsibility to protect it's enviroment. Here is a link to an image from the European Space Agency's satellite envisat. If you look at the United States and compare it to say China, it is not as bad as one would think. Also take a look at some areas in western Europe. Northern italy, Flanders, Belgium, the southern Uk, there is a whole slew that are almost mirror images of the United States' rust belt. http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/EarthObservation/pollution_global_hires.jpg

 

[Iceberg]

you say the USA pollutes more than anyone, where is your proof??

The US emits 1/4 of the world's total greenhouse gas emissions, while having only 1/20 the world's population. This means that the US is not only the biggest polluter in total emissions, but that out of the nations which emit greater than 5% of the world's emissions, the US is the biggest polluter per capita, as well.

I'll find a very reliable data source later for you to look at.

 

[Gatorman]

you say the USA pollutes more than anyone, where is your proof??

The US emits 1/4 of the world's total greenhouse gas emissions, while having only 1/20 the world's population. This means that the US is not only the biggest polluter in total emissions, but that out of the nations which emit greater than 5% of the world's emissions, the US is the biggest polluter per capita, as well.

I'll find a very reliable data source later for you to look at.

I'd like to see what percentage of those emissions are due to the manufacture and production of various products. On the surface, your numbers make us look really terrible but a significant percentage of the world's population lives in countries that produce little or no manufactured goods, refined products, etc., many of which are used globally.

 

[Conman]

Conman, .... blaming the United States as the cause of all the worlds enviromental problems is unjust and unrealistic. .... look at the United States and compare it to say China, it is not as bad as one would think. Also take a look at some areas in western Europe. Northern italy, Flanders, Belgium, the southern Uk, there is a whole slew that are almost mirror images of the United States' rust belt.

Fair argument. but you have failed to read or understand my second statement:

... America is the biggest ... but not the only contributor .... to the Global warming thing. But they are the only ones against a unilateral agreement to do something about it.

I never outrightly blamed America for all the pollution in the world. That would be dumb. Iwouldn't be putting anything on the US if they signed and agreed to do something about it but as of today, they are in total rejection to lift a finger at all. They do not even acknowledge that there is a problem even when their own people are "drowning" in their own soup of polution and are unable to see further than 2 miles on a clear day.

 

[Da' Pimp]

They do not even acknowledge that there is a problem even when their own people are "drowning" in their own soup of polution and are unable to see further than 2 miles on a clear day.

Now its not THAT Bad over here *cough We have the Environmental Protection Agency and Emissions Control. *hack And the Smogs you are talking about, That Im "Drowning" in, are Few and Far between. Actually, I just turned....................21.................Fine 30. And I have YET to actually see Smog with my own eyes (except for on Television) and it closely Reseambled Bob Sagat. And as far as the US lifting a finger in the war against Pollution, I have no control over that. But I Did VOTE!

 

[OCC-402]

re

Oil. We use it everyday, we walk on it, we burn it and we even eat it.
Petroleum permeates every part of the US culture and we just can't get enough of it. Oil powers 97% of the American transportation needs and over half the oil we consume daily goes to keeping our cars and trucks on the road. That is one barrel out of every seven used in the world. No nation uses oil like we do, as a quarter of the world oil supply is funneled right into your gas tank. Carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases are an unfortunate side effect of America’s insatiable appetite for this all-important resource.
Environmental effects aren’t only limited to the air you breath, as most major pollution of oil bearing countries is inflicted by the companies themselves. There have been an uncountable number of human rights, environmental and simply unconscionable violations of the native inhabitants and their countries just to keep our SUV’s running an d keep polluting the skies. We depend on and live on oil, but its killing us at the same time. We destroy weak economies and create a situation where the oil bearing countries are bent anyway the companies please and in the process cause mass deforestation and pollute the waterways.
Countries like Ecuador have what’s referred to as “Dutch Disease”, an almost total reliance on the oil they produce and therefore have no reason to develop any industry outside of it. With has come the clear cutting of the Amazon rainforest and a little less oxygen for the rest of the world.
But the automotive industry is making great strides in more fuel efficient vehicles and they most definitely a jumping off point for the hydrogen technologies to spread there wings as well as plastic alternatives made from sweet potatoes. But one thing we can't do is live without oil for now. But as supplies decline the demand for alternatives will surface and eventually we can cast off the shackles of our oil addiction and pursue a better energy to base our economy on


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